Giving his propensity for blowing up packed churches, I'd go with bully....Into which category would Nelson Mandela have fallen
The ethics of having children in a Post-peak world
Moderator: Peak Moderation
Meh, fair enough, the ANC committed some atrocious stuff, but a cheap shot IMO. One could just as well say victim from his prison stretch which prob. included torture, or bystander considering his current role in African politics. That's the point: people change roles, and often owing to decisions they make, and self-mastery is both good for personal strength and incresing ethical options... I know Ludwig's idea is rhetorical bluster only, but on one level he does believe it and use it to guide behaviour, which is ethical decision-making... I don't think his basis for it is scientific or Darwin-approved in this case.DominicJ wrote:Giving his propensity for blowing up packed churches, I'd go with bully....
Exactly, that's when you know just how much a belief system impacts behaviour, and a belief system is a much freer choice than people realize, once you wake up and get past the groupthink.biffvernon wrote:I'm sure I don't fit into one of Ludwig's three thirds.
But anyhow, I don't know how to steer this back around to the question of having kids.
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emordnilap
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I'll be honest, during my life the fourth third I choose to inhabit has, deliberately or otherwise, overlapped all three of Ludwig's thirds at one stage or other.biffvernon wrote:I'm sure I don't fit into one of Ludwig's three thirds.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Well you have that in common with Mandela then.emordnilap wrote:I'll be honest, during my life the fourth third I choose to inhabit has, deliberately or otherwise, overlapped all three of Ludwig's thirds at one stage or other.
More to the point, where are those who choose to use their strength to defend the weak on Ludwig's list? The fact is, if they are strong enough to do it, Darwin starts to favour them.
In practice the whole psychopath thing is being oversold here. Those people exist in the mix, but even Alexander the Great wasn't actually Hitler. In war Socrates fought bravely and was the toughest in the line. The ganglords which may well take over areas of civilized places as things go down will still need to be able to organize protection and know how to take care of their own. That's also part of what makes success, even if one does look only at Darwin to determine morality. The more stability you want the more you need to be prepared to defend it... being prepared to defend against violence with strength is selected for too then.
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biffvernon
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Yeah but my old man was so shit scared about the cold war and Russian nukes he apparantely had suicide pills in the garage. So UE does have a point. There were no russian nukes dropping in the end though were there and and I'm glad to be around. And then my dad is a bit of a nutter that's done probably a little too much acid for his own good.. which just makes me a tinfoil hat wearing chip off the old block I guess.caspian wrote:You misunderstand me. I'm not saying my parents were somehow being spiteful by bringing me into the world - they had no knowledge of PO, and nor did most people back in 1970. Having children is just expected in our society, although I can't really get my head around the idea of having children to give meaning to one's life.UndercoverElephant wrote:It would suggest that they brought you into the world because they wanted to have children in order to give their own lives meaning, and acted as if this was more important than the quality of life their children would actually experience - more like "disregard" than ill-will.
I think you may have just hit the nail on the head there!eatyourveg wrote:To the edge of the cliff you mean?DominicJ wrote:Not sure where ethics comes into it.
Evolution got us this far.
Back on topic, LB3, should you meet a floozie who wants sprogs, she is going to have them. Your say in it won't mean much beyond your continued/discontinued presence. Such is the biological urge. It is irrational and overpowering.
This has happened to a friend of mine, bloke is nearly 50, been in a steady relationship and mortgage for about 15 years with a slightly older woman, who had already done the family bit. When I first met him about 12 years ago he said he hated kids. 3 years ago he gets wowed by a floozy at work, and now he is happily married with the second sprog imminent.eatyourveg wrote:To the edge of the cliff you mean?DominicJ wrote:Not sure where ethics comes into it.
Evolution got us this far.
Back on topic, LB3, should you meet a floozie who wants sprogs, she is going to have them. Your say in it won't mean much beyond your continued/discontinued presence. Such is the biological urge. It is irrational and overpowering.
Fortunately dumped ex has now hooked a nice older widower...
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UndercoverElephant
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Not quite sure what one of those is. A woman who wants a replacement daddy? Some women just prefer older men...DominicJ wrote:A 40 year old man without own kids is prime target for a mid 20's woman with daddy issues.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
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Kentucky Fried Panda
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Kentucky Fried Panda
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- Location: NW Engerland
I'd say theres a fairly limited set of reasons 20-25 year old women aim for 40 year old men.UndercoverElephant wrote:Not quite sure what one of those is. A woman who wants a replacement daddy? Some women just prefer older men...DominicJ wrote:A 40 year old man without own kids is prime target for a mid 20's woman with daddy issues.
Broadly describable as gold digging and daddy issues.
But maybe I've just been watching Cougar Town too much.
I'm a realist, not a hippie
