Has the price of oil actually gone down?

[postie]

RGR. You really are an arse. " If you don't like what you pay for fuel, buy less." is the most bollocks you've spouted. Really it is.

Considering where we are, your comment is completely predictable. And you are wrong. Of course.

Yes, it's predictable.... but I am 100% correct...


... you are an arse.

You may be able to buy less petrol. That is your choice. BUT, how far do you go, presuming you dislike the cost of something, anything, let's say food? At what point do you buy less food for you and your kids where it ends up as malnutrition?

Because, and this is why you're wrong (and an arse). Food production uses fuel. Peak or no peak, it still does. Let's take your regular stance for a moment.. and say there is an infinite amount of oil and there is no peak-oil. If food prices increase and you don't like it.. then you can of course, use less. Or buy cheaper. But there comes a point where you do need to eat. Unless you are totally self-sufficient. And even IF you are self-sufficient, the society around you is affected by increasing food costs, which can/will increase the cost of living.

If the price of oil is affecting everything in society, not just what you use in your car... then your original statement, "buy less".. is bollocks. Because there isn't really that much that isn't affected by the price of oil. Peak or otherwise. It's all connected.

[RGR]

[quote="RalphW"]

[RGR]

[quote="postie"]

[postie]

Lots of things effect society, and its all connected. I would ask that you be more specific, but then I would have to refer you to a dictionary, and thats a third book, ...

OK RGR... I see you're a very into books...




Are they all coloured in yet?



(and it's affect... affect )

[madibe]

Methinks rgr had almost lulled us into a false sense of security there....for a while the arguments seemed more mellow somehow, more rational. And then came the tsunami rant.

RGR. there are some points of interest in some of your posts. But why go and spoil it with your fecking gung-ho american twatishness?

As I have read through the threads this evening I just got more wound up... how dare you criticise this country, our social system, our co-operation (to a limited extent!) with Europe.... etc etc. Never mind your constant insults against forum members intelligence and understanding of global events. There are some pretty smart people discussing important issues on this board - so telling them they need to read a book or two is laughable.

Amazingly, most of them could point out major cities in the US on an umarked map, even tell you what the city was like, famous for and hazard a guess at the social make-up. Unlike yourself or many of your patriots, who hazard a guess that "eyeran" is somewhere near the "country" of Australia, or that Naples is the Capital of Tibet.

Basically, as far as I am aware anyway, this forum is for UK based powerswitchers and people concerned with UK energy / political issues.

Our issues are probably different to yours, our politics certainly are. Our social society is leagues ahead. Which I admit could be a weakness; but unless you live it and have first hand experience...

So I will say it if no one else will.

F--k off with the attitude.

[Keepz]

**** off with the attitude.

Looking through this thread I would say RGR had taken quite a lot of abuse, not started by himself, before losing patience. He was called an a-e and told he was talking b-s for making the entirely reasonable and sensible comment that it is possible to reduce personal oil use, and that people could and should alter their lifestyles to do that if they can't afford to buy as much of it as they'd like. Isn't that exactly what we want?

Anyway, you undermine your own moral high ground through your use of the term "american" (sic) as a term of abuse, your wild and lazy stereotypings about Americans and their grasp of geography, and your mockery of the way they pronounce certain foreign place-names. Believe it or not the British pronunciation of certain foreign place-names isn't the way the people who live there pronouce them either, and who's to say that British wrong pronunciation is superior to American wrong pronunciation?

[2 As and a B]

What did Adam Smith say about energy costs and the market for energy?

I go with what Schumacher wrote, namely (to paraphrase) it doesn't matter how difficult it is to get ores out of the ground, process them, transport them, and manufacture and distribute goods as long as there is sufficient cheaply-priced energy available to do the work involved; but on the other hand, it doesn't matter how freely available ores are if there is not sufficient cheaply-priced energy available to extract, process, etc. Energy here being the means to do work, so includes human food and animal feed.

So, RGR, what did Adam Smith say about the energy market?

[ziggy12345]

Why do you think EROEI is nonesense?

Measurements of value in human systems are economically based, not energy based. Therefore EROEI processes of <1 can make absolutely perfect sense because of the differing value of different forms of energy.

I admit that there are processes in society that have an EROEI value of <1, fishing for example but the process in itself is just another form of consumption. For the complete system to work the total energy recovered from energy investment in all forms, Hydrocarbons, Farming, Etc... must be >1 and for it to continue in its present form might even be nearer >8. Do you agree?

[emordnilap]

EROEI is everything and, ultimately, the human race will realise this but:

The seller doesn't give a fúck so long as she or he makes a profit.

End of story.

[ziggy12345]

I agree but was trying to find a pathway for others to realise it also. Although I have tried in the past and failed.

Sellers can indeed make a profit as can gamblers in a WE ARE DODGY but ultimately everybody looses unless the system is growing

[emordnilap]

It's not rocket science. It's just that both sides - ie whether EROEI is relevant or not - are right and that's hard to handle; which side you're on depends upon whether you're selfish or not.

[the mad cyclist]

I moved. About 3 miles. Doesn't sound like much, but the junxiposition of where that house is in relation to schools (elementary, middle and high) and work means that fuel use just disappears. All those little trips to drop off the kids, pick up the kids, meetings and fundraisers and PTA and the office and the grocery store, just stop. Public transport is tougher, but when you live within walking distance of everything, who needs it?

Clearly a good move.
In the UK we have a moving tax. Let say a fossil fuel aware family, who lives in house worth around £550,000, wants to move to a similar house nearer work, school etc. They would have to pay the government £22000 for the privilege. By the time they had recouped half that amount in saved fuel, their children will have left home and they’d want to downsize.

[RGR]

[quote="ziggy12345"]

[chenyixiu]

I also see the oil on sale that day? This is a why? What is the community are now wages are not rising up ah, tragedy


microsoft office 2010 office launching
Microsoft Office 2010 profile

[JohnB]

Petrol and diesel prices at my local garage were 139.9p and 145.9p respectively a few weeks ago. Petrol is still 139.9p, but diesel has dropped in stages to 140.9p. I don't know if this is happening elsewhere.