Budget Food Plan

[rue_d_etropal]

Good discusssion, but maybe I wasn't as clear as I should have been.
Veg box schemes are probably the neartest to the idea I put forward, but it is much more general. Something where you pay a fixed amount of money(your food budget) to someone , who then agrees to supply enough food for you to live. You can request what ever you want, so it could be a big supermarket running this scheme. Doesn't have to be healthy, but that might be a good selling point. You simply don't have to worry about how much it costs , till end of the year when you are either in credit or debit.
I won't say more, just let this discussion progress(hopefully?)

[SleeperService]

And to return to the OP:

Are you proposing that your model helps people who want to eat healthily but don't know how to? How are you going to educate them about all the new fresh ingredients they are getting?

As somebody dealing with years of overeating (it's not just PO I'm becoming aware of ) this could be the aspect that gets this idea moving. A lot of people who are in difficulties ( I'm morbidly obese) want a quick fix and never move on. This could appeal to those who want to help themselves but haven't got the knowledge and/or feel overwhelmed by what they have to do.

The yearly bill could be a problem, if money is carried over then the bill may rise above what people can afford, the last thing anybody needs is food shopping debt.

To show my ignorance I had to google veg box

[woodpecker]

In this country, I find huge numbers of people are 'food fuss-pots'. That is, they won't eat all manner of things. Not they can't (due to illness) but they 'don't fancy'. Often they claim it's a health issue. Strangely, in other countries where I have lived, people don't suffer from the same 'health issues', and are perfectly able to eat anything.

Here, there's an interminable 'I can't eat...' nuts, pulses, dairy, vegetables, tomatoes... and on and on. Turns out they only eat edamame and porridge, or somesuch. Every day. You invite them to dinner, and they turn up with a wrapper containing cheese made of potato, and can't eat anything you've made. Ever.

Food faddists seem to congregate in certain locations e.g Brighton. It must be catching! But food is definitely a psychological problem for many in the UK. Can't cook food, can't eat - real - food, and can't enjoy food.

Food faddism is likely to scupper such a plan for most.

[rue_d_etropal]

Don't think anyone has really sussed what I am attempting to say yet. I won't explain, but it actually has nothing to do with food. We already buy some things this way, and someone mentioned debt, which is the nearest anyone has come.

[vtsnowedin]

Your idea sounds like. The traditional. Arrangements between husband and wife. He gives her as much money. As the income allows and she does the best she can with it.

[biffvernon]

But the husband trust the wife. Would there be the same trust between customer and shop? You don't marry a shop!

[vtsnowedin]

But the husband trust the wife. Would there be the same trust between customer and shop? You don't marry a shop!

it is easier to divorce a shop then a wife. And much cheaper.

[Andy Hunt]

Coke consumption is simply amazing:
http://www.prosebeforehos.com/image-of- ... er-capita/

I haven't had one for years, so someone else must be drinking my share!

I have a washing up bowl full of the stuff at the moment, in which I am cleaning some copper cookware I picked up at a car boot sale!

Nasty stuff!!

[rue_d_etropal]

intering analogy, husband and wife. The main difference would be that at the end of the budget period, either the wife has to give back any remaining money, or the husband has to give more to the wife, and in the mean time the wife has to use her own money.

I also said I am actually not talking about food, but something else starting with the same letter, namely fuel - in particular electricity and gas.
Most of us pay for electricity and gas on a monthly direct debit payment plan. This is fine as it balances winter and summer usage so we think we know what we are paying for. It is simple, in fact much too simple and there is no real incentive to reduce what we spend of electricity and gas.

There is also controversy over prices going up and savings not being passed on to customers. Thats another issue.

What I was trying to get people here thinking is that maybe the system should change and a modern version of coin meters should be introduced, similar to that used for pay as you go mobile phones. Again there has been controversy on extra costs to customers and for dome the social stigma, but I think rthis brings the message home to people, as they really have to think what they can afford to spend on electricity and gas. I would also expect some extra safeguards to protect those with lowest incomes.
What ever system is adopted I just don't think the current system is actually helping people use less fuel, and however much it hurts to have to take responsibility, this is much better than the alternative total failure of the system.
Now I have mentiioned my interest in France. In France there is very little mains gas, certainly not outside cities, so if you want gas, then you have to buy it in large gas bottles. Thus you have to pay up front, and when you get to bottom of bottle you have to get a refill. Most people have spare bottles, but nothing focuses you more than running out half way though cooking on a cold day.
Electricity in France is also organised slightly different, partly to help suppliers balance high demand with supply.
Depending on how much you expect to use you can opt for one of 3 payment plans, low medium and high. If you only use a little then it cheapest to opt for low use plan, and if you think you are reaching the max limit you can jump to the next plan or pay a lot more for what you use extra, A financial incentive to think befoire you use.

The other French system, which I think runs alongside these plans is to opt to only use electricity on certain days of the year, and not to use(or drastically reduce usage) on certain peak usage days. This means you get it even cheaper, and help suppliers handle peak demand. Your household life is then built up round this calendar, with expensive users such as washing machines oonly being used on non peak days. I suppose the Economy 7 system is the closest option in UK.

On the subject of fuel, taking my initial idea with food. What would happen if there was a scheme to prepay for car fuel, based on your annual mileage. You would have a special card, which was presented like a credit card, but all it would do was record how much fuel you have put in your car.
At the end of the year you would either be in credit or debit, and adjust accordingly. I suspect this would result in more fuel being used as the pschological barrier is no longer there. You would be more likely to fill up without thinking, and in the current climate(env and real) that would spell disaster.

[PS_RalphW]

Prepayment fuel metres are already used in the UK, but are only installed for social cases who have already defaulted on bills. They are the definition of credit risk and to have one is to be in the underclass.

However, they were relatively common 40+ years ago, especially in rented accommodation. I had one in my first student digs. It also charged at 40 yo rates, so it was quite cheap!

I like the idea of reintroducing them, but on a voluntary basis, perhaps in teenagers bedrooms, with the funds being allocated weekly.

I pay all fuel bills quarterly in arrears. I don't trust direct debits. I check all bills against the metres. Estimated bills are always overestimates, but I don't mind because I know the prices will go up faster than I earn interest on the money in the bank.

[rue_d_etropal]

The only winners in the current system, are the energy utilities, and the banks. Both make a fortune out of us, and would rather like everything to carry on BAU.
There has been a lot of negative comments with regard to smart meters, when something as simple as a prepaid card/coin operated meter would actually make people think what they use, and one effect would be less for the greedy utilities and banks who are gradually taking over our lives, 1984 style.
Prepaid card/coin operated meters are marketed in a way that makes those who use them feel inferior. Thats what the system wants, because such a system would undermine thoise controlling our lives.
I is interesting to read about the co-op moving into electricity supply(not too sure if they will also do gas) , as it does seem to be more of the same. The Co-op say they will have a much simpler system, but maybe they should try something totally different such as prepaid/coin meters. Maybe an ability to buy a certain amount of electricity using your debit card, so it has some of the simplicity of current systems with a twist that makes people think. I will keep an eye on what the co-op is dioing and given I am part of co-op movement may put some ideas directly to them.

[vtsnowedin]

intering analogy, husband and wife. The main difference would be that at the end of the budget period, either the wife has to give back any remaining money, or the husband has to give more to the wife, and in the mean time the wife has to use her own money.

.

You have obviously never been married. At least not to an American women.
There is another more modern situation where the wife works outside the home as well as doing the lion's share of the housewife and childcare duties. It is best summarised with "What's yours is Ours and what's mine is mine".
I do think "Working Mother" is a waste of words as there are extremely few of any other kind.
Also I think we men tend to greatly under appreciate the value of a well run household with all it's various tasks and duties preformed while we are away at work with no bigger problem then getting one job done before the boss starts us on the next job or avoiding saying something non PC to the new coworker wearing the micro mini and the cleavage blouse.
But to your original post. Like Christmas clubs and weekly payroll tax withholding these budget plans make paying for costs that are seasonally variable easier for people who can't plan ahead to pay. As it makes it easier to pay for that leads to increased consumption which is why all the vendors are in favor of them.
I'm not in the vendor's camp so I think paying COD is the best policy as you need the self discipline to think ahead and have the cash on hand and will often consider weather to part with the cash in hand or to use less of the product. Using plastic money in any of it's forms just pushes the payment down the road and puts off that decision making process. The use of debit cards is the closest to cash option but most have an automatic overdraft course in the rules that dumps you into loan shark rates as soon as you over spend and is just a trap waiting for you to step into it.
It comes down to are you a human with control of your own destiny and finances or are you a sheep being herded down the chute to the shearing?

[rue_d_etropal]

Actually am married to a Lancashire lass , and I was only putting out ideas for comparison, not real cases.
I am actually not now very keen on the idea of monthly budget plans, mainly because they sound good for the customer but are actually designed to make more money for the companis selling them. I have worked in IT finance and seen some of the schemes used to get money out of people.
The best way is to only spend what you have and when you need to. That is why I think energy supply should be offered properly on a pay for some, use it then buy more. Not good news for energy suppliers as I suspect/would hope that people actually used less electricity as a result, without all the complex monitoring systems being put in place. As people we need to learn how to control what we use.
Even more important as time goes on. It worries me watching others use more than they actually need.

[Layla]

I don't agree that paying for gas and electricty by monthly direct debit encourages people to use more or not think about how much they're using. I like to try to reduce our monthly direct debit amount by using less gas and electricity. If we had to put coins in a meter i.e. pay up front and then pay again when it had run out, I don't feel it would concentrate the mind any more.

[ujoni08]

Rue has a good point. Nowadays we put a nozzle into the filler of our cars and pull the trigger. We don't see the fuel, or have to carry it, or put any effort into producing it. We're remote from it. Similarly, we set a timer and thermostat, and our houses automatically become warm, without us having to chop, carry and season firewood, then cut kindling, make a fire, and clean out the stove or hearth in the morning. The gas comes along a pipe, silently and outside our consciousness, taking no effort on our part, or awareness of what ancient processes formed the gas. A push-button life for all, making wasting energy almost consequence-free (except for the financial penalty).

I became more aware of this when we came to live in the sticks. Though we do have gas central heating, I use the wood stove all Winter, with the associated hard work, which really focusses the mind. I also make biodiesel from waste cooking oil. I have to lift heavy cans of oil and go through many processes to filter and titrate the waste oil, pre-heat it, introduce the reagent and catalyst, achieve the trans-esterification reaction, remove the glycerol byproduct, de-methylate, settle and filter the final product (fatty acid methyl ester). Five days of intermittent work yields 100 litres of fuel. This has made me appreciate things a lot more. Eco-driving is really necessary, because I know what back-breaking work awaits me when I've used the fuel up.

Jon