UK large-scale study on the impact of weight-loss surgery

[Aurora]

So Aurora is really Kate Moss?

Kate Moss? Hardly a role model Haggis, unless you consider a coke snorting airhead to be in vogue.

[screamifyouwanttogofaster]

By her own admission in previous posts, screamifyouwanttogofaster has painted a picture of her outlook on food and exercise:

my idea as a teenager that I could eat 3 bars of chocolate a day and lose weight since it would only be 800 calories- health concerns seemed meaningless then, I just wanted to find the easiest way to be socially acceptable ie thin

How many other "treatments" do doctors recommend that have a 5% success rate! We give up and say "sod it" and eat crap. We start an exercise program, to lose weight and tone up. When we haven't lost enough lbs and don't look like a supermodel after 3 weeks we give up and turn on the TV.

And yet in the next sentence, she is capable of contradicting herself:

Instead of constantly going on about obesity, they should be talking about health, instead of diets and deprivation, nutrition and instead of exercise, activity. Yes like cycling or walking places.... oh such a radical idea, I mean why do that when you can go by car and then go to the gym later (or not).

Health? Nutrition? Exercise? Activity?

Great! I'd also recommend staying healthy by eating non-processed, nutritious food and by actively exercising on a regular basis.

What has my misguided ideas at the age of 14 got to do with anything?!

As for the rest, when I said "we" I didn't mean me, I meant people in general, when they soak up the cultural view that being thin is more important than being healthy, and listen to the mainstream advice on how to control weight. I don't diet or exercise with the goal of getting thin, so this doesn't apply to me.

No one else seemed to have a problem comprehending the point I was making. There is no contradiction in the quotes you posted, you must be misunderstanding somehow but I don't know what it is you think I was saying so I'm afraid I can't help you.

[screamifyouwanttogofaster]

THERE WERE NO OVERWEIGHT OR OBESE PEOPLE BECAUSE CHEAP, PROCESSED FOOD WASN'T AVAILABLE AND PEOPLE EXERCISED REGULARLY.

No computer games, no TV, no ready meals, no McDonald's, no KFC, no Burger King or any of the other purveyors of shite now commonly found on the high street.

I don't eat processed food. I don't eat ready meals, fast food or anything else similar.

I don't play computer games and I watch very little TV.

I exercise regularly.

I have an active lifestyle/ job.

What part of that do you find so hard to grasp? Do you think I came to this thread with the goal of lying about myself for some bizarre reason?

Yes, I was open about myself, and why not, I have nothing to be ashamed of and nothing to fear. There is nothing Aurora or anyone else here can say that I haven't come across a thousand time before. I am used to be treated badly, laughed at, having abuse shouted at me in the street or directed at me online. Big deal. I know the truth and if I can educate one person by sharing my story then it's all worthwhile.

I am well aware that there are many people who for whatever reason are determined to stick to the belief that all fat people are lazy gluttons who spend their time eating McDonalds in front of Jeremy Kyle. As I, and many others in similar situations to me, know, they are wrong, but in the end, their ignorance and unwillingness to learn is not my responsibility.

[Aurora]

If any of you think I'm wrong about the need for a healthy diet and regular exercise, then please consider the following thought.

When was the last time you saw, personally or on film, an overweight animal in the wild? Never, with the possible exception of an old or lame creature.

Why? Because they only eat what they require and burn off any excess in the course of their short lives.

And guess what? They've never heard of Weight Watchers, hyper-storage modes, Leptin resistance, the Atkin's diet or even considered the possibility of having a metabolic disorder.

Now consider the fate of many of our domesticated animals that have had to rely on their 'masters' for sustenance and exercise.



Need I say more?

If you don't agree, please feel free to continue with your sedentary lifestyle.

[Lord Beria3]

I remember meeting somebody who survived the Occupation, by the end of it, after 5 years of slim rations for the population, there were no obese people left!

Just shows that obesity is the product of lifestyle and anyone, with sufficient self-discipline, can become reasonably slim.

[screamifyouwanttogofaster]

<yawn>

[2 As and a B]

If any of you think I'm wrong about the need for a healthy diet and regular exercise, then please consider the following thought.

That you are a doctor? A nutritionist? Dietitian? That you bring some professional expertise to this discussion?

When was the last time you saw, personally or on film, an overweight animal in the wild? Never, with the possible exception of an old or lame creature.

Why? Because they only eat what they require and burn off any excess in the course of their short lives.

No, it's because any unfit, including but not exclusively overweight, animal is not able to escape predators or catch prey. Your argument is a red herring.

[screamifyouwanttogofaster]

No, it's because any unfit, including but not exclusively overweight, animal is not able to escape predators or catch prey. Your argument is a red herring.

Yes, and also because they are living in their natural habitat and eating their natural diet, and having to work hard just to stay alive.

We don't live in our natural habitat and conventional wisdom on healthy eating is not our natural diet. Plus, our bodies are designed to over-eat and store food when it is plentiful, there are many biochemical pathways which are there to drive us to eat, for obvious reasons.

Also, our bodies are did not evolve eating a high carb, low fat diet, as is currently recommended for weight loss and health. The recommendation of high carb low fat is a very recent invention based on faulty research (thankyou Ancel Keys!). It leads to chronically raised insulin levels and increased hunger and fat storage, and insulin and leptin resistance. In addition, refined sugars and carbs trigger release of our endogenous opiods and can be addictive just like alcohol and heroin.

Some are not as suceptible as others to these effects, but that certainly doesn't give them the right to judge those who are.

It is a shame if we allow intelligent discussion to be shut down by those who for some reason choose to keep themselves ignorant. Can any of them explain how my weight was stable at 9 stone and then at the same time as my other symptoms began (fatigue, joint pains, digestive problems etc), I started to gain a steady 2lbs a week even if I ate less than before? Or why the only sedentary person in my household, who also makes no particular effort to control food intake, is actually underweight? No of course not.

[DominicJ]

When was the last time you saw, personally or on film, an overweight animal in the wild? Never, with the possible exception of an old or lame creature.

Why? Because they only eat what they require and burn off any excess in the course of their short lives.

No, it's because any unfit, including but not exclusively overweight, animal is not able to escape predators or catch prey. Your argument is a red herring.

As far as I'm aware, theres evidence to both sides of this.

The "Noble Savage" tends to be in perfect shape, but also have a mortality rate of 50% by 5 years old.

If we semi starved scream, would she get thin or get dead?

[screamifyouwanttogofaster]

If any of you think I'm wrong about the need for a healthy diet and regular exercise

Um, I don't know if you've actually read the previous posts, but no one has said that.

I agree that we need to eat healthily and be active, as I expect everyone in this thread does. What I don't agree with is that being overweight proves someone lives on junk food and is a couch potato.

You can ignore me, make false claims about what I've said, or insult me, as much as you like, but that won't change the fact that you are wrong. Ultimately I can't be sure of what anyone else tells me about their diet, but I know what I eat, and what my lifestyle is. Yes, I am a case study of one, but that one is enough to prove you wrong.

[screamifyouwanttogofaster]

If we semi starved scream, would she get thin or get dead?

Thin, then possibly dead, depending on how badly you starved me? lol

I could get thin by eating less, of course. But it would be at the expense of my health and wellbeing, and I am not prepared to do that. What I am doing is seeking a way to heal what is wrong with my body so that I can be healthy in every way. So that I can get good nutrition, keep my blood sugar steady, have energy and vitality, be free of my other unpleasant symptoms, and be a healthy weight. Not an unreasonable goal, I think.

[Janco2]

I hope you succeed scream. Sounds like you are trying to do all the right things.

[screamifyouwanttogofaster]

I hope you succeed scream. Sounds like you are trying to do all the right things.

Thanks.

[DominicJ]

Thin, then possibly dead, depending on how badly you starved me? lol

Sorry, to expand on my prior point.

Scream claims to have some sort of medical whatsit that means her body shuts down if not over fed.

Now, if shes correct, then in the wild, she would be unable to feed her bodies oversized apetite and she'd die. Which is consistant with no fat animals.
If shes wrong, she needs to man up and put down the fork. Sadly, this is also consistant with no fat animals.

[Aurora]

'screamifyouwanttogofaster', believe it or not, I also wish you well in your endeavours to follow a healthy lifestyle.

I have no wish to belittle you, personally, in any way. If I have given that impression, I apologise wholeheartedly.

Nevertheless, I am also entitled to my views based, in part, on the personal experiences of friends and former colleagues, many of whom work within the NHS.

I have also read any number of articles on the subject of obesity over the past twenty years and remain convinced about the urgent need for change in our Western diet and lifestyle.