Guys!!!!!
Very pleased that PO is getting the attention it deserves in the uk. A very interesting subject that requires the astute keen reader to get to grips with many aspects of mankind's relationship with the world's energy sources.
I've done it all already years ago. And I can give you the conclusions.
- there's plenty of oil
- there's plenty of other energy sources
- anglo-american oil cartel controls world energy and obscures it's future and surpresses it's free market.
- the peak oil perpetual scare is not new
- If you think PO is new or only now relavent because it's seem to get so much more awareness these day, your wrong. The internet has given it, like all old scare storys, a new lease of life.
If PO is not a problem, why is the cost of energy increasing?
- Because the energy cartel want the cost to increase, for geoeconomic control reasons.
If there's lots of other energy sources, why aren't they more apparent in our economy?
- Because the energy cartel surpress other groups from developing energy sources. Fossil fuels are the market they are established in, dominate and understand. They don't want competition, and see no reason to disturb there own domination by phasing in new energy markets.
Why is the peak oil scare perpetual?
- People love being scared and hyped. The horror-scare film industry already capitalises on this aspect of human nature. There will always be people who tend to believe stuff thats scary and hypey.
- Looking at the history curve of oil, it's not possible to work out it's ultimate peak. PO groups tend to focus on this, rather than the physical world. Thus the uncertainty.
How do you escape the uncertainty of PO?
- You gotta want to escape for the right reasons. You gotta not get seduced by the fear and hype.
- Study the history of oil geopolitics to convince yourself an energy cartel has monopolised and is surpressing the world energy market. It has to be good books.
- Study the science and history of other energy sources to find they are perfectly viable. e.g ocean energy. Why are they not used? Because they are being surpressed.
There are other ways to escape the PO scare. Have fun finding your way out! Yahoo!
yahoo! PO is a great fun game. Message from someone whos won
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If other energy sources are being suppressed or sidelined by energy companies and related interests, is that not part of the problem, not the solution? Unless you are going to argue that oil is abiotic and produced by natural geological processes (which seems doubtful, and would need to look into it more deeply) then it becomes a finite resource, and if the peak is not happening roundabout now (or has recently, or will do soon) then eventually it will, seeing as it is a finite resource which will eventually become scarer at some point. If the alternative energy sources are allowed to be developed properly (and I do not submit this means any more than is reasonably widely known to be theoretically possible, just either not widely implemented or not researched adequately- as opposed to some of the more outlandish ideas of conspiricy theorists), then this will have to be done sooner than later.
(No doubt I am either being Captain Obvious here, or am missing the mark somewhat...?)
(No doubt I am either being Captain Obvious here, or am missing the mark somewhat...?)
Lyniezian - sounds right to me. No theories required. A finite resource is just that... and will of course run out sooner or later. The only debate really is the when of it. Good minds try to figure that out... perhaps it has happened; looking at the state of things I think so. But...
MeeMoe and RGR deny there is a problem. Perhaps they know that this material is not finite and is magically created from a a black hole that exists at the earths core
MeeMoe and RGR deny there is a problem. Perhaps they know that this material is not finite and is magically created from a a black hole that exists at the earths core
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the mad cyclist
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Re: yahoo! PO is a great fun game. Message from someone whos
meemoe_uk wrote:There are other ways to escape the PO scare. Have fun finding your way out! Yahoo!
Thank you Meemoe for putting me straight.
I now realise what a fool I’ve been. I’m sat here, in my lovely warm, over insulated home, worrying my little head off over peak oil. Now I know the truth, I can sell this house in the country, with its little bit of land, and buy a swanky big house in our local posh town. I’ll be much nearer to the shops, so I can spend every weekend buying all those lovely consumer products that make everyone happy. Yahoo. One of the consequences of all the silly preparations I’ve made, caused in part by my misguided belief that energy prices are going to soar, example, having no debt, building up savings, growing quite a bit of my own food, using wood to heat most of the house and do the cooking, is that I only have to work a few days a week. All that will change thanks to you. I’ll start working 5 days a week; I can then pay lots of lovely tax and take on lots of overheads. I’ll buy myself a big new car, Yahoo! Perhaps I could buy my wife a new Range Rover, it has snowed a lot recently, Yahoo! Yahoo! But she’d have to set off earlier to school, because it would need a more prominent position in the staff car park. Yahoo!
Or should I stop as I am? Lets face it, I have a pretty nice life and so does my wife, and all my silly thoughts and ideas, are they harming you?
Let nobody suppose that simple, inexpensive arrangements are faulty because primitive. If constructed correctly and in line with natural laws they are not only right, but preferable to fancy complicated devices.
Rolfe Cobleigh
Rolfe Cobleigh
What is more scary and hyped up:-
- The idea that a finite resource will one day become scarce
- The idea that a secret cartel of the rich and powerful can start wars, suppress clean energy sources, and control markets to enable them to impoverish us all whilst milking us for every last penny, whilst the planetary biosphere turns to compost.
And now we are being told to relax, forget our worries and enjoy consuming, because the latter is true not the former.
What on Earth is this guy smoking? Don't give me any.
- The idea that a finite resource will one day become scarce
- The idea that a secret cartel of the rich and powerful can start wars, suppress clean energy sources, and control markets to enable them to impoverish us all whilst milking us for every last penny, whilst the planetary biosphere turns to compost.
And now we are being told to relax, forget our worries and enjoy consuming, because the latter is true not the former.
What on Earth is this guy smoking? Don't give me any.
Andy Hunt
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
Eternal Sunshine wrote: I wouldn't want to worry you with the truth.
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meemoe_uk
>If other energy sources are being suppressed or sidelined by energy companies and related interests, is that not part of the problem, not the solution?
Yes, you could say that.
>Unless you are going to argue that oil is abiotic
Nope.
>and produced by natural geological processes
Yep
>and if the peak is not happening roundabout now (or has recently, or will do soon) then eventually it will,
It's hard to tell from the data, which is fuzzy at best in a blizzard of speculation. My 5 years of following peak oil hype makes me skeptical and reserved wrt 'have we pasted peakoil?'. So I'll be one of the last to believe it, say 10-15 years after peak.
Currently, there too much unheaval in the oil industry, with extensive development going on mainly in the middle east. With this mind, it's too early to call what might be a just 5 year wobble in supply as peak oil.
>seeing as it is a finite resource which will eventually become scarer at some point.
Yep
>If the alternative energy sources are allowed to be developed properly ,and I do not submit this means any more than is reasonably widely known to be theoretically possible, just either not widely implemented or not researched adequately- as opposed to some of the more outlandish ideas of conspiricy theorists
Well, you might be asking the wrong person here. I looked at alternate energy quite a bit, and to my mind there's much more energy available in alternate energy than what's widely known. You heard of thorium energy?
>And now we are being told to relax, forget our worries....What on Earth is this guy smoking? Don't give me any.
Yes, it seems you've had enough drugs already. I don't see in any of my posts where I've told you to relax and forget your worries.
>I now realise what a fool I’ve been.
No one was s'pose to drop their POdoom belief 'cos I said so. I just outlined the roads to realisation, which for me took a year of research.
Try again.
Yes, you could say that.
>Unless you are going to argue that oil is abiotic
Nope.
>and produced by natural geological processes
Yep
>and if the peak is not happening roundabout now (or has recently, or will do soon) then eventually it will,
It's hard to tell from the data, which is fuzzy at best in a blizzard of speculation. My 5 years of following peak oil hype makes me skeptical and reserved wrt 'have we pasted peakoil?'. So I'll be one of the last to believe it, say 10-15 years after peak.
Currently, there too much unheaval in the oil industry, with extensive development going on mainly in the middle east. With this mind, it's too early to call what might be a just 5 year wobble in supply as peak oil.
>seeing as it is a finite resource which will eventually become scarer at some point.
Yep
>If the alternative energy sources are allowed to be developed properly ,and I do not submit this means any more than is reasonably widely known to be theoretically possible, just either not widely implemented or not researched adequately- as opposed to some of the more outlandish ideas of conspiricy theorists
Well, you might be asking the wrong person here. I looked at alternate energy quite a bit, and to my mind there's much more energy available in alternate energy than what's widely known. You heard of thorium energy?
>And now we are being told to relax, forget our worries....What on Earth is this guy smoking? Don't give me any.
Yes, it seems you've had enough drugs already. I don't see in any of my posts where I've told you to relax and forget your worries.
>I now realise what a fool I’ve been.
No one was s'pose to drop their POdoom belief 'cos I said so. I just outlined the roads to realisation, which for me took a year of research.
Try again.
Re: yahoo! PO is a great fun game. Message from someone whos
meemoe_uk wrote:escape the PO scare. Have fun finding your way out! Yahoo!
You seem pretty explicit to me.>And now we are being told to relax, forget our worries....What on Earth is this guy smoking? Don't give me any.
Yes, it seems you've had enough drugs already. I don't see in any of my posts where I've told you to relax and forget your worries.
I find your tone quite patronising, like others who have come here apparently wishing to free us from what you perceive are our hysterical terrors over peak oil. You paint a picture of us as a bunch of people who were born yesterday, addicted to our internal horror stories over peak oil, who have not yet completed your fun journey of enlightenment and liberation.
Your neat conspiracy theory solution, whilst popular on the Internet and amongst those whose lifestyles are thoroughly wedded to business as usual, unfortunately has a few holes. And whilst much of it is true, the increasing desperation of the oil and fossil fuel companies in their quest for saleable product, which now extends to drilling miles below the sea and cooking the rock under large areas of boreal Canadian forest, is neatly side-stepped.
Some of us here follow the fossil fuel trajectory not because we like to scare ourselves, but because we are interested, sometimes in a professional capacity. I am really glad that you have had what you consider to be your epiphany over peak oil, and it is very kind and generous of you to presume to come here to free us all from our chains. But I think you'll find that most of us are doing just fine, thankyou anyway
Andy Hunt
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
Eternal Sunshine wrote: I wouldn't want to worry you with the truth.
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meemoe_uk
>You seem pretty explicit to me.
escape does not equal relax, forget
You don't make a prison break by 1st forgeting you're in prison.
>I find your tone quite patronising
Of course. What do you expect? There's people with more experience with you in this world. And ganging together with other inexperienced peeps doesn't insulate you from experienced people anymore than a school class of kids outsays the teacher.
>You paint a picture of us as a bunch of people who were born yesterday, addicted to our internal horror stories over peak oil, who have not yet completed your fun journey of enlightenment and liberation.
That's a rather magnified version of the reality, but essentially correct.
What you gonna do? Concentrate on this sore spot, hurl adhomiens and cry moderator?
>whose lifestyles are thoroughly wedded to business ajoins usual,
That ain't me. I already said. I was a POdoomer for at least 2 years. I didn't just, on finding the PO community, take POdebunked as a convienient way to dismiss PO and carry on as if nothing had happened. I took the long route.
>And whilst much of it is true, the increasing desperation of the oil and fossil fuel companies in their quest for saleable product, which now extends to drilling miles below the sea and cooking the rock under large areas of boreal Canadian forest, is neatly side-stepped.
Is it? How exactly?
>Some of us here follow the fossil fuel trajectory not because we like to scare ourselves, but because we are interested,
That's me.
>But I think you'll find that most of us are doing just fine, thankyou anyway
Wrong. I've found peakoilers today aren't the same types as those 5 years ago. 5 years ago, it was more industry types, and fast minded net surfers \ tech nerds. By today, the old bunch have moved out, having debunked PO or got fed up with the increasingly non-techy, dogmatic & evangelical types that are building up in the community. It's not what I call fine, it's more like part of the shift from technical debate group to religious cult.
escape does not equal relax, forget
You don't make a prison break by 1st forgeting you're in prison.
>I find your tone quite patronising
Of course. What do you expect? There's people with more experience with you in this world. And ganging together with other inexperienced peeps doesn't insulate you from experienced people anymore than a school class of kids outsays the teacher.
>You paint a picture of us as a bunch of people who were born yesterday, addicted to our internal horror stories over peak oil, who have not yet completed your fun journey of enlightenment and liberation.
That's a rather magnified version of the reality, but essentially correct.
What you gonna do? Concentrate on this sore spot, hurl adhomiens and cry moderator?
>whose lifestyles are thoroughly wedded to business ajoins usual,
That ain't me. I already said. I was a POdoomer for at least 2 years. I didn't just, on finding the PO community, take POdebunked as a convienient way to dismiss PO and carry on as if nothing had happened. I took the long route.
>And whilst much of it is true, the increasing desperation of the oil and fossil fuel companies in their quest for saleable product, which now extends to drilling miles below the sea and cooking the rock under large areas of boreal Canadian forest, is neatly side-stepped.
Is it? How exactly?
>Some of us here follow the fossil fuel trajectory not because we like to scare ourselves, but because we are interested,
That's me.
>But I think you'll find that most of us are doing just fine, thankyou anyway
Wrong. I've found peakoilers today aren't the same types as those 5 years ago. 5 years ago, it was more industry types, and fast minded net surfers \ tech nerds. By today, the old bunch have moved out, having debunked PO or got fed up with the increasingly non-techy, dogmatic & evangelical types that are building up in the community. It's not what I call fine, it's more like part of the shift from technical debate group to religious cult.