When the Lights Go Out

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 17 Jan 2010, 00:18

Id say most of the ruling class are likely to get shot either by the new ruling class or their own security.

There are some wealthy individuals who understand peak oil and might have planned ahead for some sort of retreat, and they could get through it statistically they would have a better chance Id think than most people .

Even a supply of tinned food could buy you a few years before you start to starve and if you are somewhere where you can farm that could be enough to get you through the first part of die-off.

but then you would still need to be lucky and tough and well armed ideally with links to a militia or tribe to keep surviving .

and welcome disabled man

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 17 Jan 2010, 00:57

Perhaps the best chance of survival in a SHTF situation is as a technically competent, permaculture aware, field-craft practiced traveller.

Fit and well armed, with the ability to repair and improvise equipment, can catch or shoot meat, knows how to grow food, and has a map to remote farms who might appreciate such a lodger.

A man who can pull his weight in these areas has a chance in even the worst scenario.

Personally I don't think it will ever be that bad, but it doesn't do any harm to prepare.

RogueMale · Post by **RogueMale** » 17 Jan 2010, 01:47

jonny2mad wrote:Id say most of the ruling class are likely to get shot either by the new ruling class or their own security.

I doubt if there would be a new ruling class. I expect anarchy, and not necessarily in a bad sense, just that controlling everyone will be near impossible.

jonny2mad wrote:There are some wealthy individuals who understand peak oil and might have planned ahead for some sort of retreat, and they could get through it statistically they would have a better chance Id think than most people .

If there's a die-off, "statistically better than most people" means taking longer to die.

jonny2mad wrote:Even a supply of tinned food could buy you a few years before you start to starve and if you are somewhere where you can farm that could be enough to get you through the first part of die-off.

but then you would still need to be lucky and tough and well armed ideally with links to a militia or tribe to keep surviving .

Someone better armed than you could steal their tinned food, or your crops. Also, you would eventually run out of ammunition, with no resources for making any more.

This survival thing is a bit like Pascal's wager, with most people taking the position of atheists, and making no preparations. The well-known problem with Pascal's wager is deciding which god to worship. Similarly, what sort of preparations will see you through?

I may be wrong, but I have reasons for believing that those who are the cause of our current problems with peak oil and climate change (both of which are caused by overconsumption) are those who are going to suffer the most.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 17 Jan 2010, 02:08

yup really I should have said new attempted ruling class because I see attempts to rule , before that you may well have coalitions or extremist political party's that could be the BNP or any type of Marxists government even the greens .

People you wouldn't think could get elected might get elected, so they might be the powers that be at the time of the real crash.

The present bunch labour and conservative may well fall out of the picture in the early stages because they are so discredited .

and Id agree that being someone that could be pointed out as knowing about all this and doing nothing is not going to be very healthy , show trials wouldn't surprise me

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 17 Jan 2010, 02:19

Catweazle wrote:Perhaps the best chance of survival in a SHTF situation is as a technically competent, permaculture aware, field-craft practiced traveller.

Fit and well armed, with the ability to repair and improvise equipment, can catch or shoot meat, knows how to grow food, and has a map to remote farms who might appreciate such a lodger.

A man who can pull his weight in these areas has a chance in even the worst scenario.

Personally I don't think it will ever be that bad, but it doesn't do any harm to prepare.

The ability to sail, lots of tough ex military friends maybe working in security before the crash , there are lots of other ability's that could keep you alive .

medical training , being a gunsmith etc etc

disabled guy · Post by **disabled guy** » 17 Jan 2010, 06:31

well one things for sure - a nice "clean hands" degree in media studies or psychology ain't going to get you very far - those who will ultimately survive are the ones with practical skills such as hunters - woodworkers etc ( that's once the killing has stopped ) - what price then your hard earned degree ??

we are heading for a disaster anyways - as we are encouraging our young people to disdain "dirty hands jobs " in favor of never getting their hands dirty - and seemingly never having to face up to the realities of life - again this morning people moaning on a forum about it being quote: "bad taste" to show bodies of earthquake victims

FFS PEOPLE GET KILLED IN EARTHQUAKES - THIS PRODUCES BODIES - FACT OF LIFE !!

one of the reasons i packed in the fire service ,was the rise of PC pussiness - ( the stroke that left me disabled came a couple of years later so i would have been out any ways ) - and particularly a lecture ( er they call them "defusing" sessions ) by some 20 something university type "stress councillor " after a particularly nasty job involving a person and a piece of heavy duty farm machinery ( needless to say you can guess what won the encounter ) - anyways - when asked by me HER experience of mangled humans - she admitted she had never even SEEN a dead body

- and THESE are the people who DARE to try and tell a group of experienced guys with in all probability ( collectively ) over 100 years of dealing with this stuff - how we should be feeling ??

jeez - the level of naivety and non practical "expertise " demonstrated by many in society - fueled by universities and the theoretical over the practical is clearly demonstrable - its the same with many forums - i have even been told on one that my brand of "realism" is not wanted as it may upset people

the simple questions YOU all need to be asking yourself NOW is what are you going to realistically do when the oil starts to get short or too expensive ??- how are YOU going to change your life so that you can survive ?? - and actually START making preparations NOW - future proofing your home and your family as best you can -

and if 2012 DOES come to pass ?? well we all screwed anyways - but like YK2 and many other "doomsday" scenarios - i suspect nothing will happen - its the one you DONT see coming that will get you

have a good day

[/url]

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 17 Jan 2010, 06:37

You're preaching to the converted DG. Keep the bloody noise down!

disabled guy · Post by **disabled guy** » 17 Jan 2010, 06:45

Aurora wrote:You're preaching to the converted DG. Keep the bloody noise down!

sorry fire service training in teaching /instruction

TELL EM - TELL EM AGAIN- THEN TELL EM WHAT YOU HAVE TOLD EM

old habits die hard - sorry if i disturbed you - its a bit early - but my arthritis has woken me at 0430 and makes me crotchety - i find spreading a little joy a great panacea whilst the pain killers kick in

any ways the cat wants her brekky - so i will leave you all to go back to sleep

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 17 Jan 2010, 06:59

disabled guy wrote:
Aurora wrote:You're preaching to the converted DG. Keep the bloody noise down!
sorry fire service training in teaching /instruction

TELL EM - TELL EM AGAIN- THEN TELL EM WHAT YOU HAVE TOLD EM

Some of the folk on this forum are energy experts. Most are very aware of the predicaments which now threaten to engulf our world.

My advice, for what it's worth - chill out and catch up with some of the back copy. You'll learn a lot. I have - thanks guys (and gals of course).

disabled guy · Post by **disabled guy** » 17 Jan 2010, 10:28

aye and some of the folks on this forum are "experts" ( for what THAT words worth ) in dealing with clearing up the mess people make for them selves too - so sorry for voicing an opinion

seems like a lot of forums , my opinions and experience are not wanted - so my advice ?? have a nice life - ill go preach to the converted somewhere else - seems as usual every one knows it all here

me gone - see you around folks

contadino · Post by **contadino** » 17 Jan 2010, 11:35

disabled guy wrote:well one things for sure - a nice "clean hands" degree in media studies or psychology ain't going to get you very far - those who will ultimately survive are the ones with practical skills such as hunters - woodworkers etc ( that's once the killing has stopped ) - what price then your hard earned degree ??

we are heading for a disaster anyways - as we are encouraging our young people to disdain "dirty hands jobs " in favor of never getting their hands dirty - and seemingly never having to face up to the realities of life - again this morning people moaning on a forum about it being quote: "bad taste" to show bodies of earthquake victims

FFS PEOPLE GET KILLED IN EARTHQUAKES - THIS PRODUCES BODIES - FACT OF LIFE !!

one of the reasons i packed in the fire service ,was the rise of PC pussiness - ( the stroke that left me disabled came a couple of years later so i would have been out any ways ) - and particularly a lecture ( er they call them "defusing" sessions ) by some 20 something university type "stress councillor " after a particularly nasty job involving a person and a piece of heavy duty farm machinery ( needless to say you can guess what won the encounter ) - anyways - when asked by me HER experience of mangled humans - she admitted she had never even SEEN a dead body - and THESE are the people who DARE to try and tell a group of experienced guys with in all probability ( collectively ) over 100 years of dealing with this stuff - how we should be feeling ??

jeez - the level of naivety and non practical "expertise " demonstrated by many in society - fueled by universities and the theoretical over the practical is clearly demonstrable - its the same with many forums - i have even been told on one that my brand of "realism" is not wanted as it may upset people

the simple questions YOU all need to be asking yourself NOW is what are you going to realistically do when the oil starts to get short or too expensive ??- how are YOU going to change your life so that you can survive ?? - and actually START making preparations NOW - future proofing your home and your family as best you can -

and if 2012 DOES come to pass ?? well we all screwed anyways - but like YK2 and many other "doomsday" scenarios - i suspect nothing will happen - its the one you DONT see coming that will get you

have a good day [/url]

On a similar note, I've just stumbled upon a blog by a permaculturalist (sp?). His effort to help those in Haiti...? Some 'kin pathetic flowcharts explaining to them what they need.

http://www.humblegarden.com/2010/01/15/ ... maculture/

It's no surprise that the general perception of permaculture is just a joke nowadays. "It's just a talking shop" seems justified following comments like...

Shitty Blog wrote:We are, in many ways, their community.

We are each other’s community and it is through us banding together that we build resilience in every place.

Thankfully there are (a few) others out there who understand that a flowchart is no use what-so-k**king-ever. Michael Reynolds, for instance, who I read is heading out to Haiti to help in the same way he did after the tsunami hit a few years ago.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 17 Jan 2010, 13:44

disabled guy wrote:aye and some of the folks on this forum are "experts" ( for what THAT words worth ) in dealing with clearing up the mess people make for them selves too - so sorry for voicing an opinion

seems like a lot of forums , my opinions and experience are not wanted - so my advice ?? have a nice life - ill go preach to the converted somewhere else - seems as usual every one knows it all here

me gone - see you around folks

Well I'm interested in your opinions and experience really powerswitch has a pretty broad outlook , you have the happy smiley people who want no borders and world liberalism , you have people who think peak oil wont be that bad , you have doomers like me who think zombie apocalypse is looking on the bright side .

Also its the main British peak oil site so any brit out there finding out about peak oil will look in, if you just have the happy smiley people they wont have the broad spread of views they now have .

People can be more annoying online than they are in real life thats a thing to remember , Ive met a few powerswitchers in real life and although I'm likely to depress them they're very nice

nika · Post by **nika** » 17 Jan 2010, 14:38

contadino wrote:
On a similar note, I've just stumbled upon a blog by a permaculturalist (sp?). His effort to help those in Haiti...? Some 'kin pathetic flowcharts explaining to them what they need.

http://www.humblegarden.com/2010/01/15/ ... maculture/

It's no surprise that the general perception of permaculture is just a joke nowadays. "It's just a talking shop" seems justified following comments like...

[/quote="Shitty Blog"]We are, in many ways, their community.

We are each other’s community and it is through us banding together that we build resilience in every place.

Thankfully there are (a few) others out there who understand that a flowchart is no use what-so-k**king-ever. Michael Reynolds, for instance, who I read is heading out to Haiti to help in the same way he did after the tsunami hit a few years ago.[/quote]

Contadino

Several points for you.

1) I am not a he, I am a she

2) I walk the talk, see that same link that you referred to and look around. We grow much of our own food, we raise our own chickens, we produce our own milk, yogurt, buttermilk, cheese, entertainment with our herd of 12 LaMancha dairy goats.

3) What have you done for Haiti? Or are you an armchair commentator on this situation?

4) What have you done to prepare? Or are you an armchair survivalist?

5) Know what you are talking about before you make such foolish statements

6) Learn something about permaculture - for your own sake - truly. Without systemic thinking, you are lost.

7) Do us ALL a favor, once you skill up in any respect, contribute constructively.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 17 Jan 2010, 16:59

Erm...welcome to PS Nika but I hope you've read some of our previous "form". Contadino runs a farm/smallholding in Italy so he's not exactly sitting in an armchair either.

nika · Post by **nika** » 17 Jan 2010, 17:17

RenewableCandy wrote:Erm...welcome to PS Nika but I hope you've read some of our previous "form". Contadino runs a farm/smallholding in Italy so he's not exactly sitting in an armchair either.

This matters with respect to his grossly pejorative statements about what we are doing?