I know precisely what Vortex is talking about. Around these here parts pardner we call them Pikeys. And Lorne is right, these people will have to be dealt with without remorse.caspian wrote:Vortex, I can't remember whereabouts in the country you moved to, but I live in the country and I don't recognise your characterisation at all. I live in a not particularly prosperous area of South Wales (although it's not poverty-stricken either). Crime seems to be pretty low round here - I've never heard of anyone being burgled, and I've never felt at risk.Vortex wrote:The police do eff all. The criminals are better armed and tougher than the rural police.
Those of you who live in the country know what section of the community I am talking about.
Opting out before the UK becomes 3rd world?
Moderator: Peak Moderation
-
eatyourveg
- Posts: 1289
- Joined: 15 Jul 2007, 17:02
- Location: uk
-
LorneGifford
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 10 Dec 2009, 09:37
- Contact:
Don't forget that every generation has a natural but completely irrational tendency to believe their world is about to end.
In my youth and for my parents generation it was widely expected that nuclear war would be the grim reaper. For my grand parents it was invasion by the Germans. Before that we had the great depression, the war to end all wars, Spanish flu. Reaching further back the Victorians were very concerned about the high birth rates of 'the masses' leading to a breakdown in society (seriously, they were really worried about that). Bit further back and you get Ludites, plague and famine. And of course every significant date in the calander brings someone forward with the belief the real end of the world and the day of reconing is upon us.
Funny thing though is that it doesn't happen, and statistically the chances of our generation being the last to follow 10,000 years of progression in living standards and life expectancy is pretty low. If you're not worried about peak oil, then climate change will get you. If not climate change then the burgening world population, terrorist dirty bombs, global religeous conflict, ebola, immigration rates, volcanic mega winters, meteorite impact, mass extinction events etc.
Just a thought, but don't over-react to anything or any threat until it is upon you. Preparation is good, but don't over do it.
By the way, nobody has come back to me with an offer of a room in a farmhouse for me and the family if the world does go to pot.
In my youth and for my parents generation it was widely expected that nuclear war would be the grim reaper. For my grand parents it was invasion by the Germans. Before that we had the great depression, the war to end all wars, Spanish flu. Reaching further back the Victorians were very concerned about the high birth rates of 'the masses' leading to a breakdown in society (seriously, they were really worried about that). Bit further back and you get Ludites, plague and famine. And of course every significant date in the calander brings someone forward with the belief the real end of the world and the day of reconing is upon us.
Funny thing though is that it doesn't happen, and statistically the chances of our generation being the last to follow 10,000 years of progression in living standards and life expectancy is pretty low. If you're not worried about peak oil, then climate change will get you. If not climate change then the burgening world population, terrorist dirty bombs, global religeous conflict, ebola, immigration rates, volcanic mega winters, meteorite impact, mass extinction events etc.
Just a thought, but don't over-react to anything or any threat until it is upon you. Preparation is good, but don't over do it.
By the way, nobody has come back to me with an offer of a room in a farmhouse for me and the family if the world does go to pot.
-
LorneGifford
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 10 Dec 2009, 09:37
- Contact:
Oh, big problems. Take a look at 'Six Days - the end of the world as we know it and the future of global energy' You can read it for free on my web site, www.lornegifford.webs.com.
But I don't think they're insurmountable problems and I think we'll come out the other side looking broadly similar to today - ie with a society that acts for the common good.
However, getting to the other side might have a few negatives in it, in the same way getting past the plague or stopping the Nazi's had a few negatives. Don't forget that ultimately we live in a very brutal age.
The bottom line is that given the choice between respecting someones right of ownership (food, land, transport, shelter etc) and providing for my children then I have no doubt whatsoever of the course of action I would take. If you really want to opt out and become non oil dependent then you must also understand that the people who laugh today will be the same ones who come knocking on your door if everything does fall apart. It might be unfair, but it's the way things happen.
But I don't think they're insurmountable problems and I think we'll come out the other side looking broadly similar to today - ie with a society that acts for the common good.
However, getting to the other side might have a few negatives in it, in the same way getting past the plague or stopping the Nazi's had a few negatives. Don't forget that ultimately we live in a very brutal age.
The bottom line is that given the choice between respecting someones right of ownership (food, land, transport, shelter etc) and providing for my children then I have no doubt whatsoever of the course of action I would take. If you really want to opt out and become non oil dependent then you must also understand that the people who laugh today will be the same ones who come knocking on your door if everything does fall apart. It might be unfair, but it's the way things happen.
I don't really understand your point.LorneGifford wrote:Don't forget that every generation has a natural but completely irrational tendency to believe their world is about to end.
In my youth and for my parents generation it was widely expected that nuclear war would be the grim reaper. For my grand parents it was invasion by the Germans. Before that we had the great depression, the war to end all wars, Spanish flu. Reaching further back the Victorians were very concerned about the high birth rates of 'the masses' leading to a breakdown in society (seriously, they were really worried about that). Bit further back and you get Ludites, plague and famine. And of course every significant date in the calander brings someone forward with the belief the real end of the world and the day of reconing is upon us.
Funny thing though is that it doesn't happen, and statistically the chances of our generation being the last to follow 10,000 years of progression in living standards and life expectancy is pretty low. If you're not worried about peak oil, then climate change will get you. If not climate change then the burgening world population, terrorist dirty bombs, global religeous conflict, ebola, immigration rates, volcanic mega winters, meteorite impact, mass extinction events etc.
Just a thought, but don't over-react to anything or any threat until it is upon you. Preparation is good, but don't over do it.
By the way, nobody has come back to me with an offer of a room in a farmhouse for me and the family if the world does go to pot.
You talk about irrational tendency to believe their world is about to end... then list a load of sever shocks, most of which did happen! There was nothing irrational about those beliefs. Sure nuclear war didn't happen, but history now shows us we did come very close. The belief again wasn't irrational.
You say statistically the chances of our generation being the last... is pretty low. But you seem to be ignoring the exponential function. The last generation of two have had more impact on the Earth than the last 100 generations added together. I would say dramatic shocks are far more likely with our generation than any preceding.
Shocks do happen, wars, plagues, climate, asteroids etc. I would say we are at greater risk today than ever before due mainly to the size and complexity of modern civilisation. It wouldn't take much of a shock to collapse our current system, complex systems don't degrade gracefully.
-
LorneGifford
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 10 Dec 2009, 09:37
- Contact:
Yes, just a few...LorneGifford wrote:
However, getting to the other side might have a few negatives in it, in the same way getting past the plague or stopping the Nazi's had a few negatives.
Really? Compared to what/when?Don't forget that ultimately we live in a very brutal age.
"We're just waiting, looking skyward as the days go down / Someone promised there'd be answers if we stayed around."
-
Eternal Sunshine
- Posts: 776
- Joined: 08 Aug 2007, 13:52
- Location: Preston, Lancashire
- Contact:
Oh I don't know.... it can even be quite brutal on this forum sometimes.Ludwig wrote:Really? Compared to what/when?
Every age is brutal. Humans (and other species) are brutal, especially when their backs are against a wall. I'm a pacifist vegetarian but I'd suddenly become very brutal if my family was threatened.
-
Eternal Sunshine
- Posts: 776
- Joined: 08 Aug 2007, 13:52
- Location: Preston, Lancashire
- Contact:
Preparations ? I can think of a few things, but everything depends on the nature of the crash.
Assuming another banking crisis I think the problem will be panic buying of whatever is in the supermarkets followed by rationing and inflation of food prices.
A good stock of water, food and fuel will help. A large stash of Euros could prove very useful as the £ becomes worthless and the remaining shops with stock start to accept harder currencies.
Assuming another banking crisis I think the problem will be panic buying of whatever is in the supermarkets followed by rationing and inflation of food prices.
A good stock of water, food and fuel will help. A large stash of Euros could prove very useful as the £ becomes worthless and the remaining shops with stock start to accept harder currencies.
If everything goes pear-shaped watch them kick you out to save their own arses. The same goes anywhere that isn't your own country/area imo.Beria3 wrote:if I achieve my financial goals of considering moving to Switzerland which I consider one of the safest places to be be in the coming decades.
The whole "I'm moving away from Britain - it's far better in country X" is a false hope. You'll never be one of them, and when there isn't enough for them, who do you think they will get rid of first? One their own?
-
adam2
- Site Admin
- Posts: 11045
- Joined: 02 Jul 2007, 17:49
- Location: North Somerset, twinned with Atlantis
As I have posted elswhere on these forums, we dont know what the future holds, but due to peak oil, climate change, and economic problems, it is likely to be worse than the present or recent past.
To stock up on food, fuel, and other supplies is IMHO prudent, as is learning useful skills.
It is well to be prepared not just for a slow or sudden crash, but also for more localised or short term problems.
Remember the great floods in Gloucestershire a few years ago? thousands lacked drinking water, and would have lacked electricity if the water had been slightly deeper.
Remember the petrol shortage of a few years ago ? hardly TEOTWAWKI, but still a problem for those reliant on road transport. Those who had a few spare cans of fuel were no doubt glad of this.
Or what about the great power cut in Dartford recently ? power was off for days, which is almost unknown in an urban area.
Those who had prudently stocked up on candles, batteries and lanterns suffered less.
Or the recent flooding in Cumbria, people one side of the washed out bridges had no access to shops or other services for over a week, without a very long car trip.
A stash of food etc would have most desirable in such cases.
To stock up on food, fuel, and other supplies is IMHO prudent, as is learning useful skills.
It is well to be prepared not just for a slow or sudden crash, but also for more localised or short term problems.
Remember the great floods in Gloucestershire a few years ago? thousands lacked drinking water, and would have lacked electricity if the water had been slightly deeper.
Remember the petrol shortage of a few years ago ? hardly TEOTWAWKI, but still a problem for those reliant on road transport. Those who had a few spare cans of fuel were no doubt glad of this.
Or what about the great power cut in Dartford recently ? power was off for days, which is almost unknown in an urban area.
Those who had prudently stocked up on candles, batteries and lanterns suffered less.
Or the recent flooding in Cumbria, people one side of the washed out bridges had no access to shops or other services for over a week, without a very long car trip.
A stash of food etc would have most desirable in such cases.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
-
Lord Beria3
- Posts: 5066
- Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 20:57
- Location: Moscow Russia
- Contact:
Why Switzerland?
Good question.
1. historically Switzerland has been a neutral secure area even when the rest of Europe was slaughtering each other.
2. Has a massive army to defend its borders and could easily buy nucleur weapons if it had too
3. If you fear unrest from Muslim radicals in the future, the Swiss will be unlikely to tolerate any of that in there own country - e.g. recent referendum
4. Banking system safer than others and a good tradition of secrecy and risk management (http://www.chinapost.com.tw/detail.asp? ... dition.htm)
5. Swiss Frank remains the safest of world currencies and is backed by considerable gold (20%, used to be 40%
)
6. Could live a self-sufficient lifestyle, lots of wood for heat and a healthy lifestyle there.
Its not perfect, and I won't pretend that their Germanic sense of humour might grate, but I could think of alot worse places to live
Good question.
1. historically Switzerland has been a neutral secure area even when the rest of Europe was slaughtering each other.
2. Has a massive army to defend its borders and could easily buy nucleur weapons if it had too
3. If you fear unrest from Muslim radicals in the future, the Swiss will be unlikely to tolerate any of that in there own country - e.g. recent referendum
4. Banking system safer than others and a good tradition of secrecy and risk management (http://www.chinapost.com.tw/detail.asp? ... dition.htm)
5. Swiss Frank remains the safest of world currencies and is backed by considerable gold (20%, used to be 40%
)6. Could live a self-sufficient lifestyle, lots of wood for heat and a healthy lifestyle there.
Its not perfect, and I won't pretend that their Germanic sense of humour might grate, but I could think of alot worse places to live