Space Exploration

landyowner · Post by **landyowner** » 05 Jul 2009, 10:17

Have we missed the boat on this one? I ask because while talking to my Granddad yesterday he mentioned that we 'would be on Mars by the end of the century', I think he may have even meant living, or at least have a colony on there.

I can understand why he might think that, the rate of change in technology in his lifetime must be amazing, and he must think that that will continue, but what with peak oil probably hitting very hard by the middle of the century, will there be any energy left over for any sort of space mission, even the ISS?

I didn't have the heart to tell him about energy constraints, so just nodded and agreed, but I can't see us even getting to the moon again, last I heard from NASA was that they are thinking of manned missions to the moon again around 2020, which by that time we could well be on the downslope. If we are only going back to the moon in a decade, how long would it take us to finally send people to Mars?

Never gonna happen?

ziggy12345 · Post by **ziggy12345** » 05 Jul 2009, 11:25

It will never happen. Not the human species anyway

Post by **adam2** » 05 Jul 2009, 11:44

I believe that you are right.
Sending men to Mars, though possible with available technology, is looking unlikely for financial reasons.
Society is also increasingly "risk averse" and unlikely to tolerate any loss of life in developing interplanetary travel.

I doubt that we will even see a manned return to the moon, or a replacement for the space shuttle.

Short duration sub orbital loops, or trips to low earth orbit are likely to be available soon to anyone rich enough to pay for the novelty.
Virgin has well advanced plans in this regard.
Such would be novel joyrides but unlikley to serve any serious purpose.

I doubt that such trips will ever be popular, only a small minority will be able to afford them, and most of the rich probably dont want a brief, uncomfortable, and very expensive spaceflight.

Unmanned sattelites are of course very useful for numerous purposes, and the launching of such will probably continue as long as BAU does.

bigjim · Post by **bigjim** » 05 Jul 2009, 11:56

Even if we did go to Mars what would be there for us when we got there? If we did settle down there then it's very unlikely that there would be any sources of energy to exploit other than solar power, and don't forget that the sun will be much less intense on Mars. This would make life difficult.

Kieran · Post by **Kieran** » 05 Jul 2009, 13:37

Nope, it's an earth-bound dystopian future for us I'm afraid.

Sleeping Satellite
I blame you for the moonlit sky
and the dream that died
with the eagle's flight
I blame you for the moonlit nights
when I wonder why
are the seas still dry?
Don't blame this sleeping satellite
Did we fly to the moon too soon?
Did we squander the chance?
In the rush of the race
in the reason we chase is lost in romance
and still we try
to justify the waste
for a taste of mans greatest adventure.
Have we lost what it takes to advance?
Did we peak too soon?
If the world is so green
then why does it scream under a blue moon?
We wonder why
the earth's sacrificed
for the price of its greatest treasure
Did we fly to the moon too soon?
Did we squander the chance?
In the rush of the race
in the reason we chase is lost in romance
and still we try
to justify the waste
for a taste of mans greatest adventure.
And when we shoot for the stars
what a giant step
have we got what it takes
to carry the weight of this concept?
Or pass it by
like a shot in the dark
miss the mark with a sense of adventure
Did we fly to the moon too soon?
Did we squander the chance?
In the rush of the race
in the reason we chase is lost in romance
and still we try
to justify the waste
for a taste of mans greatest adventure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuhDDx49TTw

ziggy12345 · Post by **ziggy12345** » 05 Jul 2009, 14:05

Thanks for reminding me of that song. Brilliant

RGR · Post by **RGR** » 05 Jul 2009, 14:05

[quote="ziggy12345"]

DominicJ · Post by **DominicJ** » 05 Jul 2009, 14:23

I hope so, but it might just be because I'm a nerd

The moon, Mars and both of its moons all have uranium on them, so energy shouldnt be much of an issue.

If we were on The moon, we could build a coil gun or a rail gun which would cut the costs of transport to mars vastly.
Having a mass driver that you could point at people you didnt like on earth would exactly be downside either.

Whats the point of surving peak oil to die when the sun novas?
My descendents had damned well better find a way to survive the big crush / heat death of the universe.

Papillon · Post by **Papillon** » 05 Jul 2009, 15:39

landyowner wrote:Have we missed the boat on this one? I ask because while talking to my Granddad yesterday he mentioned that we 'would be on Mars by the end of the century'

End of the century?? Some of us are on Mars already (like the economists for example), others may have not gone as far but are certainly on our Moon - like the majority of our elected representatives (paid for as 'expenses', naturally - under the 'Second Homes on a Neighbouring Planet/Moon' entitelment scheme.

As for the majority of us, as always, we've been left in the dark and are actually on Pluto (but can't tell as there's not enough light over here).

We will never reach Mars. My old man has a saying: 'The advantage of a wise person over an intelligent one, is that the wise knows how to avoid situations the inteligent might find solutions for'. The human race, is very intelligent and yet strikingly un-wise! We are exhausting our planet's non-renewable treasures at a monsterous rate, and bio-fuel or windpower will hardly get us to the clouds, let alone Mars.

We are past our peak and we're not going anywhere anymore

ziggy12345 · Post by **ziggy12345** » 05 Jul 2009, 17:04

I was born in 1958 and it seems the human race has somehow mirrored my life. 35-45 was the best time and 51 past the peak going steadily down hill with the odd small uplift. Is this just luck or is the strong anthropic cosmological principal coming true

Norfolk In Chance · Post by **Norfolk In Chance** » 05 Jul 2009, 18:53

RGR wrote:
ziggy12345 wrote:It will never happen. Not the human species anyway
Sure it will happen. And it'll be the human species doing it.

Sorry Z, I just am a raging realist I guess. To much science fiction as a kid maybe. Or the idea that some scientists at the AAPG National Convention were actually writing papers on how to use the methane hydrates on Mars during the colonization process.

People think I'm a little out there talking about using putting the methane hydrates on this planet to good use, and in the scientific community they are already plotting the takeover of others.

Those crazy scientist types!! Someone should tell them about peak oil!

Has anyone looked at getting any methane from Uranus?

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » 05 Jul 2009, 18:57

Norfolk In Chance wrote:Has anyone looked at getting any methane from Uranus?

Have you been watching all those setting fire to farts videos on YouTube

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 05 Jul 2009, 20:55

Of course we can reach Mars if we want to.

It's a political not an energy issue ... unless we want to set up a 100,000 person base there or something equally profligate.

Erik · Post by **Erik** » 05 Jul 2009, 22:20

ziggy12345 wrote:Thanks for reminding me of that song. Brilliant

Here's a song for ya:
UNCLE SAM'S ON MARS

Shoals of dead fish float on the lakes,
But Uncle Sam's on Mars
And science is making the same mistakes,
But Uncle Sam's on Mars
No one down here knows how to work the brakes,
But Uncle Sam's on Mars

Uncle Sam's on Mars, Uncle Sam's on Mars, Uncle Sam's on
Mars, he's on Mars

Layers of smoke in the atmosphere have made the earth
Too hot to bear
The Earth might be a desert soon, America has left
The Moon

Uncle Sam's on Mars, Uncle Sam's on Mars, Uncle Sam's on
Mars, he's on Mars

He's digging for dreams in the red sand
He's got his bucket and spade in his left hand
He's digging for dreams
He's looking for life

What's he doing out there?
He's looking for life
Looking for life
There may be life out there

(Nixon to Armstrong - July 21st 1969:)
I'm talking to you by telephone from the Oval Room in the White House.
And this certainly must be the most exciting telephone
Call ever made here on Earth. I just can't tell
You how proud we all are. For every American this
Has to be the proudest day of their lives. And
For people all over the world, I'm sure they too
Join with us in recognising what a tremendous
Achievement this is. For one priceless moment
In the whole history of Man......

MacDonalds Hamburger
Construction works
And he's looking for life
Looking for life to wind up
He's looking for life to stamp out
He's looking for life to grind out
He's looking for life, so mind out

I hope you brought your credit card with you, and I hope you know how to
Drive on these long, lonely freeways and intersections we've got up
Here. We've got two cars in the garage, two cars in the garage, and
Drum-majorettes in white ankle socks and baton twirling on Sundays.
We've got stripes and the stars and Uncle Sam's on, Uncle Sam's on, Uncle
Sam's on, Mars....

Post by **clv101** » 05 Jul 2009, 22:42

I don't think we'll ever have a significant number of people anywhere other than Earth. We could put dozens on the Moon and Mars within a decade if we chose too. Peak oil is irrelevant for that it's just technology and politics, Apollo era technology could do it!

I don't think we'll ever see significant numbers of people doing it though as there's no point. 'Colonising' the Pacific ocean (surface, mid-depths, or ocean floor), Antarctica, Greenland, the Sahara etc... would be much easier and cheaper than colonising the Moon or Mars.

This planet isn't even close to being full enough to make the Moon or Mars look attractive. Consider them when the population here passes 20bn.

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