Chinese electric cars and buses

Our transport is heavily oil-based. What are the alternatives?

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kenneal - lagger
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Chinese electric cars and buses

Post by kenneal - lagger »

An article from Exponential Investor on Chinese Electric vehicles at market changing prices -

Forget Tesla, this is the electric car company to watch

BYD, the most important company you’ve never heard of, has been showing off its wares at the Shanghai Auto Show.

The leading Chinese electric vehicle manufacturer unveiled 23 new car models, ranging from high-powered gull-winged sports cars to SUVs, minivans and city cars.

The reason I say BYD is the most important company you’ve never heard of is not because of its cars, but its buses.

>From Bloomberg in 2018:

Electric buses were seen as a joke at an industry conference in Belgium seven years ago when the Chinese manufacturer BYD Co. showed an early model.

“Everyone was laughing at BYD for making a toy,� recalled Isbrand Ho, the Shenzhen-based company’s managing director in Europe. “And look now. Everyone has one.�

Suddenly, buses with battery-powered motors are a serious matter with the potential to revolutionize city transport—and add to the forces reshaping the energy industry. With China leading the way, making the traditional smog-belching diesel behemoth run on electricity is starting to eat away at fossil fuel demand.

In fact, the market for electric buses has got so big it’s having a real effect on oil demand.

The Bloomberg article continues (emphasis mine):

The numbers are staggering. China had about 99 percent of the 385,000 electric buses on the roads worldwide in 2017, accounting for 17 percent of the country’s entire fleet. Every five weeks, Chinese cities add 9,500 of the zero-emissions transporters—the equivalent of London’s entire working fleet, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance.


It goes on to say that these electric buses are reducing oil demand by 233,000 barrels a day. A day! When you add in the oil saved by electric cars and light trucks that rises to 277,000 a day.

That’s the equivalent of about 7.5% of Shell’s daily production.

It is a massive amount. And the vast majority of it is from electric buses. Electric car stores may grab most of the headlines, but it seems it’s buses that are leading the way.

So, it’s clear that BYD is a major player in the electric vehicle market. But what grabbed me about its Shanghai Auto Show releases was not the new supercar concept it was showing off…

Image

… but the small town car it’s created:

Image

Why? Well, this car has a range of 189 miles, and will go on sale for around £6,825. That’s incredibly cheap for any car, but for an electric one it’s unheard of.

>From CleanTechnica:

The BYD E1 is an economical compact electric car. It comes in 4 variants, with prices between 59,990–79,990 RMB ($8,915–11,888). The design is in line with most compact economy cars — as in, you get what you pay for — but I find the design good for what it is supposed to be. The range is 305 km (189 miles) NEDC.


To put that into perspective, the best-selling Nissan Leaf has a range of 169 miles and starts at £31,440.

And let’s not forget that once you’ve made the initial outlay, electric cars are incredibly cheap to run. We’re talking around 3p per mile, compared to diesel’s 9.1p per mile and petrol’s 12p per mile.

An electric car with a decent range that costs less than £7,000 to buy brand new, could transform the automotive industry.

The question is whether BYD will ever ship its cars to the West, and whether they will meet our stricter regulatory standards.

If you watched yesterday’s Exponential Investor Premium video, you’ll know that US and China relations are back on rocky ground.

As Eoin Treacy showed, two tweets from Donald Trump sent the Chinese stockmarket tanking and created shockwaves in markets throughout the world.

The biggest question for companies like BYD is how the trade war between China and the US will turn out.

But even so, if companies are managing to make decent electric vehicles at the prices BYD is quoting, the “electric vehicle revolution� may play out much faster than many analysts realise.

And if you’d like to find out how to profit from this situation, keep an eye out later this week when I’ll be sharing Eoin Treacy’s latest research into this area with you.
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Post by adam2 »

IF these cars are sold in the UK.
IF the range is genuine and not in Chinese miles
And IF they are reasonably safe and reliable.

Then this is IMHO a game changer. And even if they turn out not to be available, or are of doubtful quality, then it shows what COULD be done, perhaps by a competitor.

Regrettable though that it is imported and not made in the UK.
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Post by clv101 »

BYD, or Build Your Dreams is a good company. My next door neighbour and a few other people round here have BYD 10kWh lithium batteries in their power systems (both or and off-grid). Much cheaper and simpler than the Tesla Powerwall. Has a great guarantee too.

The car looks too cheap though. Even with super efficiency of 150Wh per mile that still requires around a 30kWh battery. You can't buy a 30kWh battery plus even the cheapest of cheap vehicles for under £7000.
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Post by woodburner »

No problem, they can be sold like power tools, bare unit. Separate batteries and charger extra.
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Re: Chinese electric cars and buses

Post by Potemkin Villager »

kenneal - lagger wrote:


Suddenly, buses with battery-powered motors are a serious matter with the potential to revolutionize city transport—and add to the forces reshaping the energy industry. With China leading the way, making the traditional smog-belching diesel behemoth run on electricity is starting to eat away at fossil fuel demand.
Of course exactly the same thing can be managed without batteries, it is an old abandoned technology called trolley buses!
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Re: Chinese electric cars and buses

Post by emordnilap »

Potemkin Villager wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:


Suddenly, buses with battery-powered motors are a serious matter with the potential to revolutionize city transport—and add to the forces reshaping the energy industry. With China leading the way, making the traditional smog-belching diesel behemoth run on electricity is starting to eat away at fossil fuel demand.
Of course exactly the same thing can be managed without batteries, it is an old abandoned technology called trolley buses!
It’s not being tied to fixed routes that most people want from transport.

A better alternative is avoiding transport altogether. Why should I have to get myself to the food? Why isn’t a significant proportion of my food just a walk away? Apply this idea to every aspect of your life.
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Re: Chinese electric cars and buses

Post by adam2 »

Potemkin Villager wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:


Suddenly, buses with battery-powered motors are a serious matter with the potential to revolutionize city transport—and add to the forces reshaping the energy industry. With China leading the way, making the traditional smog-belching diesel behemoth run on electricity is starting to eat away at fossil fuel demand.
Of course exactly the same thing can be managed without batteries, it is an old abandoned technology called trolley buses!
Better still IMHO would be trolley buses with a relatively small battery.
A small and therefore cheap and lightweight battery would permit of diversions away from the normal route. The hugely complicated trolley wire arrangements at road junctions and roundabouts could be eliminated.
In battery mode, the trolleybus could easily cross an electrified railway line at a level crossing, and could also pass under bridges too low to accommodate the trolley wires.
With most of the route electrified, the battery would be charged in normal service, no need for rapid charging or long layovers for slow charging.
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Post by PS_RalphW »

Those chinese prices will never be seen in the UK. They do not include

1. transport to UK costs
2. Import Duties
3. VAT at 20%

Also, cars for the chinese market probably have far lower safety equipment and air con and other entertainment specs.

The biggie of course is the very low wages and dire employment conditions of the people making the cars, compared to EU manufacturers
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Post by adam2 »

clv101 wrote:BYD, or Build Your Dreams is a good company. My next door neighbour and a few other people round here have BYD 10kWh lithium batteries in their power systems (both or and off-grid). Much cheaper and simpler than the Tesla Powerwall. Has a great guarantee too.
Might I suggest starting a new thread in the electrical forum about these batteries ?
Lets keep THIS thread on the topic of EVs.

BYD or other lithium batteries for home use would be interesting in the electrical forum.
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

I have had a soft spot for trolley buses ever since the 1950s. The first ones that I remember were the one's that I got on to go to secondary school in 1960 but I know that I had used them before that on holidays with my grandparents in Portsmouth as well as at home in London. They had great acceleration as well as being very quiet.

Budapest has a great transport system with integrated trains, trams, trolley buses and buses. We could learn a lot from their system over here.
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