Rural crime "out of control"

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adam2
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Rural crime "out of control"

Post by adam2 »

There is a general view that rural crime has increased significantly, and that it is not taken seriously by the police.
There were several reports on TV news yesterday about this.

Some farmers are resorting to "medieval defences" of large earth banks and ditches to deter theft of heavy machinery.

The thieves are reported to be increasingly blatant, operating in broad daylight, and in view of witnesses.
In one case the wife of the farmer witnessed the theft, and rang 999, but the police did not attend until the next day.

I have also heard anecdotal reports of increasing thefts from local farms, and alleged police indifference.
Tractors, quad bikes, livestock, and fuel seem to be the main targets, but almost anything has been stolen.
Even empty LPG cylinders are stolen, for the hire charge or deposit.

One local farm had a considerable quantity of tools and implements stolen from a securely locked store, the thieves used the farmers own tractor to pull the end wall out of the building, and to carry away the loot.

I know of one farm that keeps a bull in the machinery store, this has worked so far, but I fear that eventually the thieves will shoot the bull.
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Post by Snail »

A couple of years ago, 450 scattered sheep were stolen in one night from a moffat hill farm in dumfries&galloway :shock:

Also a lot of opportunistic thefts where I am: thieves going from house to house during the day checking if the front door is unlocked. Trailers and caravans etc, or garden items.

And reports of urban gangs travelling from one area of the country to another. Quickly swooping in and flying away before anyones the wiser.

So not just farms, but rural businesses and communities in general are being targetted.

Even sheep worrying is on the increase.
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Post by Little John »

It was obvious that, in a failing capitalist society, where solidarity between citizens has been eroded to the point where we either have absolute, individualised alienation or at best, highly tribal loyalties, that crime was going to rise. It is only a surprise it has taken so long (since the crash of 2008).

The next question is how are people and communities to protect themselves and their property as the state withdraws ever more from the provision of services. In the now distant past, communities looked after their own shit to a more significant extent and did whatever was necessary with the wrongdoers in their midst. But, the state eventually took over that role and actively discouraged and even punished those communities that still tried to exercise their own self regulation.

So, we are now in a transitional situation where the state no longer has either the will nor the means to protect property and keep people safe. But, neither is that same state yet willing to back off and let communities do it for themselves.

This cannot last.
Last edited by Little John on Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

Greer wrote about this in his book on the long descent.

The first to unravel would be the isolated rural countryside, services will be withdrawn and the folks left to fend for themselves.

It starts with police stations, but will likely end up with electricity being cut in the 2030's, sending the countryside into brutal de-industrial poverty for many.

As Little John says, communities will need to start policing themselves at some point as the state de facto withdraws from certain parts of the country.
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Post by BritDownUnder »

The beginnings of 'Peak State' I think!

Years ago I worked in the Insurance and Pensions Industry and we had a conference on the future of pensions in the UK. There was about 12 of us around a boardroom table, pretty serious atmosphere of mainly actuaries. I knew I was leaving as I had just got the visa to emigrate so I didn't mind saying something controversial. So one young lady asked the question to me whether I thought there would be a state pension in 2040 to which I replied that there would not be a 'state' in 2040 never mind a state pension and went on about anarchy, global warming, sea level rise and peak oil for about 20 seconds. Needless to say there was a stunned silence around the table.

Coming back to the original subject I think the police are very nervous when dealing with the main perpetrators of rural crime, namely Irish travelers in light of the Tony Martin / Fred Barras case many years ago.
Last edited by BritDownUnder on Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Little John »

In the small, rural, coastal, working class town where I live, the state is, relatively speaking, already in significant retreat. Also, one of the running jokes in this area about my town is how it is always several decades behind the times, culturally speaking. And there is some kernel of truth to that. However, this also means it has already had to get used to watching out for itself in a way that many other areas have little experience of.

So, for example, some very rowdy/antisocial gypsies/travellers decided to drop anchor in a part of the town on some municipal land the other week. This has been, in the past, an issue due to increased thievery that has accompanied the occurrence of such encampments, A couple of phone calls were made to the authorities with the usual non-response. So, a significant "delegation" of local men went and had a "conversation" with the travellers and explained how it might be best if they moved on. They were gone by nightfall.

I neither condone nor criticise the above. It is what it is. And what it is will not always be pretty. But, it is going to be inevitable. And, to be honest, in the times to come, I would rather be somewhere like here than a lot of other places where people have lost any sense of local solidarity or local identity.
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Post by fuzzy »

The police gave up decades ago everywhere I have lived. 30 years ago a local thief told me you can see a blue flashing light 3 hills away following only 1 route. They knew they had 40 mins to pack up. In the same area [only about 10 miles from Newcastle] a local rang to report a commercial robbery in progress. The witness was an ex teacher and could name the yobs. Plod turned up 3 days later for a statement. The last 2 rural towns I have lived each have a part time police station. The current one has flats. I gather they book nights away from the city as extra on call pay, regardless of the station being empty. The last part time [Market harboro] had a large function room in which there was parties, but pressing the entrance intercom transfers you to a central switchboard 20 miles away. At my current location, I watched a yob destroying road signals outside the part time station. No one appeared.
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Post by emordnilap »

Little John wrote:So, for example, some very rowdy/antisocial gypsies/travellers decided to drop anchor in a part of the town on some municipal land the other week. This has been, in the past, an issue due to increased thievery that has accompanied the occurrence of such encampments, A couple of phone calls were made to the authorities with the usual non-response. So, a significant "delegation" of local men went and had a "conversation" with the travellers and explained how it might be best if they moved on. They were gone by nightfall.
We've a similar situation here - a very assertive neighbour made his position very clear to our country cousins. A 'we know where you are' threat. As a result, there's been no trouble to speak of within a decent radius.

Also yes, the institutions of the Irish state are being stealthily withdrawn....sorry, centralised.
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Post by clv101 »

Lord Beria3 wrote:Greer wrote about this in his book on the long descent.

The first to unravel would be the isolated rural countryside, services will be withdrawn and the folks left to fend for themselves.

It starts with police stations, but will likely end up with electricity being cut in the 2030's, sending the countryside into brutal de-industrial poverty for many.

As Little John says, communities will need to start policing themselves at some point as the state de facto withdraws from certain parts of the country.
This collapse of the nation state, where the state is smaller than the nation is definitely happening in many places. Couple of obvious examples are Mexico and Brazil where the state has completely retreated from large areas of the nation.

It opens up the interesting question of where best to be in a collapse scenario - rural areas or urban? In the urban areas, in all but the worst situations you can expect power, water, food, security etc... but in your 3rd floor flat you are completely dependent on the system (your job, shops, utilities etc) working. In a rural area you/your community could be far more independent, significant fraction of food could be grown locally, water collected, electricity generated, security provided etc, but a community being largely independent in all these (because the state has retreated) is also pretty risky - if you screw up there's no safety net.

Heard a radio drama (might have been a book) a few years ago about the UK in a few decades time where sea level had risen much faster than expected and some areas of the country had, officially, been abandoned by the state. It focused on a coastal area, maybe Lincolnshire Marsh or Norfolk, anyway the state had abandoned the area to the sea, no longer maintained the drainage and sea defences - told everyone to leave. Most did, but a lot didn't. Thousands still lived there, most of the time it was fine, every few years there were floods etc but by living in the abandoned houses on higher ground, on the first floor etc it was fine. The interesting aspect of the drama was the relationship between the people in the UK proper, and those left in the abandoned areas - they were truly independent, no taxes, no public services, no recognised address etc. Anyway, enough waffle.
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Post by adam2 »

The main dissatisfaction around here, and presumably elsewhere, is that whilst most thefts are no longer investigated, the police DO investigate with considerable vigour, any harm done to a thief.

Stealing of agricultural machinery worth £100,000 seems to be considered not worthy of police attention.
But anyone threatening the thief is liable to feel the full force of the law.

One farmer commented that the police no longer offer what used to be the standard advice regarding valuable machinery. This used to be, firstly fit CCTV to farmyards and secondly fit to the machines GPS trackers that can not be easily removed or defeated.

Many farmers followed this advice, and in so doing merely highlighted inadequacies in police response.
CCTV is now widely used and sometimes produces good pictures of suspects, but seldom results in an arrest. Video evidence is increasingly regarded as circumstantial, and not being "compliant" And of course might not even be legal due to data protection and human rights legislation.

And as for tracking devices, there are well recorded cases of the police being unable to recover stolen property even when given GPS location.
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Post by Potemkin Villager »

I am surprised so many folk in rural Ireland still bother with having their cars tested annually, insured or taxed. The chances of being stopped and prosecuted are very small unless you are driving around a town after closing time on a Friday night!
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Post by emordnilap »

Potemkin Villager wrote:I am surprised so many folk in rural Ireland still bother with having their cars tested annually, insured or taxed. The chances of being stopped and prosecuted are very small unless you are driving around a town after closing time on a Friday night!
The Irish are much less anarchic than of yore. Another effect of money, I suppose.
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Post by adam2 »

A bull kept in the machinery shed as suggested above seems to be working well :)

They found the door to the machinery shed forced open, and the previously confined bull now running loose.
Nothing was missing and the bull looked "pleased with himself"

It remains to be seen if any cows are unexpectedly in calf.
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Post by vtsnowedin »

Bulls do have their priorities. :lol:
I can't imagine such goings on in rural USA.
By the second or third household they would meet an armed home owner and if they were lucky get held for the cops to come and take them away, which does really happen daily in the US. If a bit unlucky they might challenge the home owner and their remains would be fed through a corn chopper and spread on the field needing the most fertilizer.
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Post by BritDownUnder »

adam2 wrote:A bull kept in the machinery shed as suggested above seems to be working well :)

They found the door to the machinery shed forced open, and the previously confined bull now running loose.
Nothing was missing and the bull looked "pleased with himself"

It remains to be seen if any cows are unexpectedly in calf.
My sister's partner owned a company in Essex making security gates and they were worried about possible break-ins at the business, Their solution was to leave their Alsatian/German Shepherd there on Friday night not being fed (but did have sufficient water available) until Monday morning. A lucky would-be thief would have escaped. A luckless one would have been eaten. Needless to say a lot of food was made available to a very angry dog on Monday morning before business was resumed.
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