Brexit process

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vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

Little John wrote:Monetary wealth is just a lever or power. But, that only remains true so long as the majority is not materialized. Because, as soon as it is, we all get to find out how much it is really worth.
I think you are off the truth there LJ. Musk could sell huge chunks of his stock, even a majority of it, to willing buyers and buy gold with the proceeds or just start spending it on wine women and song or yachts etc. So it is real wealth as long as some people think Tesla will actually deliver in the long run. The stock price today is not set by the last quarters sales and profits but what investors think the company will do five or ten years down the road. And a lot of the worlds wealth is in the stock of established companies that have delivered profits per share year on year for decades. There are some long shots like Tesla and some pretty safe bets like Caterpillar or Microsoft and the winners will in almost all years out perform the few losers.
Place your bets accordingly and never bet the rent.
kenneal - lagger
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

The trouble is that if one or two big holders in any one stock start to liquefy their assets the value of that stock drops and then others panic, or the computers panic, and you get a run on that stock. If that happens in a few more stocks you get a run on the whole stock market and a crash results. Trillions can be wiped off the world's wealth in a few hours.

So how much is that wealth really worth? In the 1920s when that happened many of the "rich" were jumping out of windows.
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Post by Little John »

kenneal - lagger wrote:The trouble is that if one or two big holders in any one stock start to liquefy their assets the value of that stock drops and then others panic, or the computers panic, and you get a run on that stock. If that happens in a few more stocks you get a run on the whole stock market and a crash results. Trillions can be wiped off the world's wealth in a few hours.

So how much is that wealth really worth? In the 1920s when that happened many of the "rich" were jumping out of windows.
Precisely. Like diamonds, the value of money is only maintained by relative scarcity
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

Little John wrote:.............. Like diamonds, the value of money is only maintained by relative scarcity
Like gold too. And it also has to do with their relative indestructibility, unlike money.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
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Post by Little John »

kenneal - lagger wrote:
Little John wrote:.............. Like diamonds, the value of money is only maintained by relative scarcity
Like gold too. And it also has to do with their relative indestructibility, unlike money.
Gold really is scarce. Diamonds, however, are not, except insofar as that scarcity is artificially maintained. Just like money.
vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

There is this measure called book value of a stock. It measures the net assets of a company from buildings ,factories ,Patents and even staff. Yes trained skilled employees are a asset. This and current year or quarter earnings per share set a floor on how far a stock can go down before other buyers step up and buy the assets at their true value. The problem is with some companies that have more debts then assets with Tesla being a prime example. They need to take the money they borrowed or raised with stock sales and complete enough of their planned projects profitably to pay off those debts and that is still far from a sure thing. So you have one pundit prediction a $1000/share price five years out with another predicting a collapse back to $30/ share.
As long as Wall street is open gambling will be legal in New York.
The big boys tend to be careful to not cause a panic by selling big blocks of their personnel stock as they can't sell it all at once and to make a big first move would reduce the value of their remaining assets. Also jumping ship followed by a sharp decline in the price would bring on insider trading investigations and possible charges.
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

So what you are really saying, VT, is that people have been buying stocks and pumping up their value to way above the actual value rather than investing in an actual good use for the money.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

kenneal - lagger wrote:So what you are really saying, VT, is that people have been buying stocks and pumping up their value to way above the actual value rather than investing in an actual good use for the money.
That is certainly true of some people and some stocks. Others have bought stocks that are not as unreasonably priced based on P/E and book value. Institutional investors have spread their investments between the two.
But at the present time it is almost pointless to buy government bonds or leave cash in a misnamed savings account as they do not even keep pace with inflation.
At present the best investment is probably a modest sized house in a good location the investor can live in. That would be a "good use" of their money.
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Post by Lurkalot »

vtsnowedin wrote: At present the best investment is probably a modest sized house in a good location the investor can live in. That would be a "good use" of their money.
My own house was £180,000 when i brought it and is now valued at between 330-350,000 , my parents brought theirs for £8000 , i inherited it and is now worth in the region of £120,000 so yes my investment has increased. In all practical terms that extra wealth is the same as the extra wealth i have gained from the shares i own in that , as ken says , that wealth can't be realised unless i sell it all. To be fair there is a small return on the shares and a better return on my parents house which we rent out ( it could be more but we rent it out to family at what is really below market price) but the house we live in doesn't give any return unless one counts the lack of mortgage or rent .
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Post by Potemkin Villager »

A lack of mortgage or rent is a pretty good investment in anybody's book and not to be sneezed at by lucky folk in such a position.
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UndercoverElephant
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Post by UndercoverElephant »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... eal-brexit
Boris Johnson has claimed there will be no more trade and security talks unless the EU adopts a “fundamental change of approach�, as he seeks to increase pressure on Brussels to give ground in the negotiations.

In a televised statement on Friday, the prime minister said the country would have to prepare for a no-deal scenario on 1 January, with his spokesman further toughening up the rhetoric later in the day.

“The trade talks are over – the EU have effectively ended them yesterday when they said they did not want to change their negotiating position,� the spokesman said, while stopping short of announcing the UK’s intention to decisively walk away.
So Johnson is preparing to walk away, and I think he means it.

From my perspective, the EU has overplayed its hand in a major way. They thought the UK was going to back down over fisheries, but there was no way that was ever going to happen. Johnson cannot back down on that issue. Either the EU does a deal which leave UK in total control of our own fisheries (at least eventually), or there will be no deal. This is no bluff.

I predict the EU is now going to start making concessions, but I doubt they will be enough.
“If there is a deal, it must allow us to define the modalities of access for our fishermen to British waters,� [Macron] said. “Will the situation be the same as it is today? No, it will not, that’s for sure. Our fishermen know it. We know that too. We are going to help them. We need to have a compromise on access, but we know it will not be of the same nature. It won’t be as ambitious. It will come with conditions, perhaps we will have to pay for it.
�

The penny is beginning to drop maybe?
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Post by stumuz1 »

They will rue the day they ever humiliated Theresa May.

She was supine, she was on their side, she wanted a BRINO deal.

What was the commissions response? Believe what the fifth columnists (Blair, Starmer, Major,) were briefing, that if they (EU) threatened, obfuscated, and then humiliated the UK PM at the summit of European Union leaders in Salzburg then somehow a second referendum would be called and the UK would change its mind.

And the rest is history.
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

Macron is saying that the French fishermen will not be sacrificed for Brexit but the reason that the French fishermen have so much access to UK waters is that the British fishermen were sacrificed to get us into the EU in the first place. We're just going back to something like we were before we were conned into the EU all those years ago.
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Post by adam2 »

kenneal - lagger wrote:Macron is saying that the French fishermen will not be sacrificed for Brexit but the reason that the French fishermen have so much access to UK waters is that the British fishermen were sacrificed to get us into the EU in the first place. We're just going back to something like we were before we were conned into the EU all those years ago.

Agree.
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Post by Catweazle »

stumuz1 wrote:They will rue the day they ever humiliated Theresa May.

She was supine, she was on their side, she wanted a BRINO deal.

What was the commissions response? Believe what the fifth columnists (Blair, Starmer, Major,) were briefing, that if they (EU) threatened, obfuscated, and then humiliated the UK PM at the summit of European Union leaders in Salzburg then somehow a second referendum would be called and the UK would change its mind.

And the rest is history.
Spot on. If they had given her a token victory to take home the deal would have been done.
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