Are we on the brink of an electric car revolution?

Our transport is heavily oil-based. What are the alternatives?

Moderator: Peak Moderation

User avatar
ReserveGrowthRulz
Banned
Posts: 737
Joined: Sun May 19, 2019 8:00 am
Location: Colorado

Post by ReserveGrowthRulz »

Lurkalot wrote:One argument that constantly comes up is a lack of infrastructure , not enough charging points and so on and i do have to ask why we adopted ICE vehicles in the first place , after all we had no infrastructure for them , no petrol stations or workshops to repair them , unsuitable roads and they were slow , expensive and unreliable. I normally get ignored or criticised when i say that though.
An understandable truth can cause some to recoil in horror at honest original thought, no doubt.
Last edited by ReserveGrowthRulz on Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
adam2
Site Admin
Posts: 8154
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:49 pm
Location: North Somerset

Post by adam2 »

I would argue that we already HAVE basic infrastructure for electric vehicles.
Almost every building already has a mains electricity supply, and power sockets into which an electric vehicle may be plugged with nothing more complex than a heavy duty extension lead.

Fast charging via a dedicated high capacity circuit is preferable, but almost every home or workplace ALREADY HAS infrastructure for slow charging.
Far better than the early days of petrol cars when "motor spirit" had to be ordered from the chemists.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
User avatar
BritDownUnder
Posts: 800
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:02 pm
Location: Hunter Valley, NSW, Australia

Post by BritDownUnder »

A simple argument for me to have electric cars is to ask yourself is it easier for you to make electricity or hydrocarbons at home. For me it is easier to make electricity than go through chemical synthesis and make long chain hydrocarbons. So, when I get the money it will be an electric car for me when I get the next one.
G'Day cobber!
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin
Posts: 12401
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:35 am
Location: Newbury, Berkshire
Contact:

Post by kenneal - lagger »

The smart charging schemes on test at the moment gauge price on the availability of renewable energy as well as demand and all leave enough fuel in the car to get you home and back to work the next day. The parameters for charge/discharge can be set quite widely to gain maximum advantage to the system for supplying electricity while not inconveniencing the car owner. With smart meters on businesses and the vagaries of renewable power supply it might suit the business owner to offer free fuel for employees EVs as the advantage gained from a free power supply from employees vehicles at times of high demand and therefore price might make this financially viable.

Also as charging points and EVs become the norm the supply of petrol and diesel will go down as will the number of outlets and people still insisting on driving ICE cars will find it more and more difficult and expensive to fill up. Then there is the possibility of a carbon tax that actually works. Or even carbon credits? They might also find themselves bracketed with smokers and shunned.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin
Posts: 12401
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:35 am
Location: Newbury, Berkshire
Contact:

Post by kenneal - lagger »

adam2 wrote:I would argue that we already HAVE basic infrastructure for electric vehicles.
Almost every building already has a mains electricity supply, and power sockets into which an electric vehicle may be plugged with nothing more complex than a heavy duty extension lead. ........
The problems come when you have towns and cities with large numbers of old terraced housing using on street parking. There are legal problems over leaving a power cable draped across the pavement (side walk for our US friends).

We have had our local authority propose a scheme for on road electric car chargers in just such a situation and those with electric cars, or those wanting electric cars want the parking spaces designated for EVs only while those not having/wanting EVs cry foul play as they will lose the opportunity to park there.

Once EVs become the norm and chargers abound these sort of problems will die down, only to be replaced with other currently unforeseen ones.

There is a similar problem with the provision of designated cycle lanes as car drivers resent having the road narrowed to allow for cycle lanes that are not used at the moment because there aren't enough cyclists because there aren't any safe places to cycle. Luckily enough our local authority is happy to narrow the roads to put in place cycle lanes. The slowing of the traffic by the restriction in road width also has a road safety advantage.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
vtsnowedin
Posts: 6596
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:14 pm
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

Post by vtsnowedin »

kenneal - lagger wrote: The problems come when you have towns and cities with large numbers of old terraced housing using on street parking. There are legal problems over leaving a power cable draped across the pavement (side walk for our US friends).

.
That one I understood.
I do have to substitute the word plan or plans for your every use of scheme as in America all schemes are considered evil or criminal.
We have the same debate about bike lanes here compounded by winter when all the bikers have retreated to their Subarus and the plow trucks are busy scraping off the bike lane marking paint. One thing a bike lane does do in the summer is provide room for an ambulance to wind it's way through a traffic jam to the accident site.
User avatar
BritDownUnder
Posts: 800
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:02 pm
Location: Hunter Valley, NSW, Australia

Post by BritDownUnder »

vtsnowedin wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote: The problems come when you have towns and cities with large numbers of old terraced housing using on street parking. There are legal problems over leaving a power cable draped across the pavement (side walk for our US friends).

.
That one I understood.
I do have to substitute the word plan or plans for your every use of scheme as in America all schemes are considered evil or criminal.
We have the same debate about bike lanes here compounded by winter when all the bikers have retreated to their Subarus and the plow trucks are busy scraping off the bike lane marking paint. One thing a bike lane does do in the summer is provide room for an ambulance to wind it's way through a traffic jam to the accident site.
I think the builders of those Victorian terraces really should have known about the shortcomings of their dense terrace housing. After all electricity, batteries and transportation technologies were all known to them. The theory of the greenhouse effect was also known to them.

More seriously, Where my uncle lived was a terraced street, he was one of the few to have off street parking and never owned a car. When I visited 40 years ago the street was empty of cars. When we visited 10 years ago the street was full of cars and we had to use our uncle's off street parking - assuming the access to it wasn't blocked by a parked car.

As for differences between plan and scheme in UK and US parlance got me thinking about I always have one question in my mind when I enter the US or apply for a visa there. What the hell is 'moral turpitude"? Even with the internet I have never found a satisfactory answer.
G'Day cobber!
vtsnowedin
Posts: 6596
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:14 pm
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

Post by vtsnowedin »

]Without doing a computer search Id say thinking having sex with under age girls or boys of any age is OK but today that might be relaxed a bit.
User avatar
BritDownUnder
Posts: 800
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:02 pm
Location: Hunter Valley, NSW, Australia

Post by BritDownUnder »

vtsnowedin wrote:]Without doing a computer search Id say thinking having sex with under age girls or boys of any age is OK but today that might be relaxed a bit.
Well that's a relief. I don't have to lie when I go to the US next.

Back to electric cars I guess.
I suppose the circuit used in street lighting could be used. With the move to LED lighting there may be some excess capacity in cables for the streetlights that could be used in charging points. I am sure that I have read something about this or seen it on the fully charged show somewhere.
Some councils to save money in the 'austerity years' in the UK may have even switched off street lighting after midnight to save money. Perhaps these councils can now 'make' money by selling an expensive charging option to the unsuspecting terrace-inhabiting British public.
G'Day cobber!
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin
Posts: 12401
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:35 am
Location: Newbury, Berkshire
Contact:

Post by kenneal - lagger »

BritDownUnder wrote:.............I think the builders of those Victorian terraces really should have known about the shortcomings of their dense terrace housing. After all electricity, batteries and transportation technologies were all known to them. The theory of the greenhouse effect was also known to them. ..........
They must have thought about global warming or at least coal use when they built those terraces because they use far less building materials than semi detached or detached houses thus keeping the embodied energy lower and having only two outside walls they used a lot less coal to heat them. Clever buggers those Edwardians and Victorians!
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
vtsnowedin
Posts: 6596
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:14 pm
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

Post by vtsnowedin »

Might they sacrifice say one house in twenty to build parking garages with chargers for the remaining nineteen?
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin
Posts: 12401
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:35 am
Location: Newbury, Berkshire
Contact:

Post by kenneal - lagger »

I know that European and Japanese cars are small but you obviously don't know the size of some of our terraced housing, VT. Much of it has a frontage of 5 metres or less and 8 or so metres in depth with one metre or less front "garden" and maybe five metres at the rear so you would have to take out one in three or one in four to make way for cars. Making that sort of sacrifice for cars in this day and age is not what is needed to combat climate change. It would be better to spend that sort of money on better bus services.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
User avatar
adam2
Site Admin
Posts: 8154
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:49 pm
Location: North Somerset

Post by adam2 »

BritDownUnder wrote:
Back to electric cars I guess.
I suppose the circuit used in street lighting could be used. With the move to LED lighting there may be some excess capacity in cables for the streetlights that could be used in charging points. I am sure that I have read something about this or seen it on the fully charged show somewhere.
Some councils to save money in the 'austerity years' in the UK may have even switched off street lighting after midnight to save money. Perhaps these councils can now 'make' money by selling an expensive charging option to the unsuspecting terrace-inhabiting British public.
In the great majority of cases, there are no dedicated cables for street lights. Almost all street lights are connected to the same mains that serve homes and other customers.
Depending on a number of factors, there might be, or might not be spare capacity in the existing mains.
The introduction of LED street lights has only helped slightly because most street lights already used high efficiency lamps and the saving by use of LEDs was modest.
Replacing a 60 watt incandescent in your home with a 6 watt LED is clearly a saving of about 90%
Replacing a 70 watt sodium lamp in a street light with a 40 watt LED is only about a 50% saving but still worthwhile due to the long hour use.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
woodburner
Posts: 4127
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:45 pm

Post by woodburner »

To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
vtsnowedin
Posts: 6596
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:14 pm
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

Post by vtsnowedin »

:lol: :lol: Very funny.
When you are leading the pack you get attacked from the rear all the time. Tesla maybe leading now but that does not mean they can keep the top spot for any length of time. All those extras they are charging an arm and a leg for will become freebees soon enough especially the software packages.
Post Reply