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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

And less good bands may not make good money but it doesn't stop them playing. I listen to live music maybe once a week on average and never have to pay much.
madibe
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Post by madibe »

Ah...what were record companies for...

Well, for one, they acted as quality control filters (and I'm not talking about the pop market here - that's a different ball game!).
Between the p&r, producers and studios the quality was maintained and those who couldn't cut it never got pat the demo stage. Now the demos are what you can download...which has its charms.

By the way RC, I did indeed mention that there is much mega talent out there....

Perhaps nostalgia has got the better of me. :wink:
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

Image
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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DominicJ
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Post by DominicJ »

Music is simply losing because its overpriced crap.

The vast majority of music is bought by young people.
The first entertainment gadget kids got in their room was a radio/cassette
Now most of them have HD TV and Sky multiroom.
They bought music, when they had no other choice, as soon as they had a choice, TV beat radio.

But then, there was mobile music, a Walkman/Discman/iPod.
But again, now its just as easy to watch a film on the move as it is to listen to music.

Game of Thrones on DVD is £28, for over 10 hours of footage.
Adeles Albulm 21 is £7.99 for 44minutes
Adele Costs £10 an hour, AGOTS a mere £2.80

Over time, a CD will come down to £7.50 an hour, but the entire Stargate SG1 series comes in at 50p per hour today.
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clv101
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Post by clv101 »

DominicJ wrote:Over time, a CD will come down to £7.50 an hour, but the entire Stargate SG1 series comes in at 50p per hour today.
That's not a fair comparison as an album can be listened to hundreds of times, even the best TV/films can't be watched more than a few times before they lose their appeal.
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DominicJ
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Post by DominicJ »

I disagree, I watch the same shows all the time, so must other people, otherwise repeats wouldnt work.

I of course wouldnt watch the first episode of something on loop, but could easily watch Babylon 5, then the three Stargates, then Scrubs on my trip to work and back.
Since that would take at least a year, I'm pretty sure I could watch B5 again at the end.
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the_lyniezian
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Post by the_lyniezian »

Emord: Surely you know how business works- it'll always be the people at the bottom who will be the first casualties, the industry bigwigs you show the pictures of will only suffer once they can't make anyone else redundant. Thremust be whole host of people involvedthe actaual engineers, publicists, and so on, as well as any artists themsleves, who aren't automatically rich.

Plus, whilst I don't really consider so-called 'intellectual property' as real 'property' in the conventinal sense (as opposed to a limited monopoly with rights granted by the state on a non-permanent basis) it is almost a form of stealing. And is theft right simply because you're stealing from a billionaire?

Better simply not to pay Big Media in the first place I guess, and look elsewhere for your music (second-hand is my preferred method, or support the truly independent sector).
madibe
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Post by madibe »

Yes - to agree with lyniezian, there are so many involved in the industy (or were) from tea boy, runner, through to engineer, producer, studio proprietor, session musicians, arrangers, fixers, a&r, management, guitar techs, maintainance engineers, publicists, visual artists (think packaging), secrataries, receptionists...oh, the list goes on.

Now what we have is nada.

A ship without a captain IMHO.

Oh, and someone mentioned earlier that bands can make enough money by gigging...tried it? Been there got the t shirt. Even on 3 gigs a week at 1500 a throw you are not going anywhere with a five piece. By the time you have factored in gear, transport, food you are on a very basic. No left overs for quality studio time.

Ah well. Guys. Think what you will. After all, it is just a larf aint it. My amp goes up to eleven anyway :wink:
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mobbsey
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Post by mobbsey »

I think one of the greatest problems is the Performing Rights Society. They legally extort money from people in order to play music in public.

A couple of years ago I was approached a charity in Wales who'd been asked for grand to play music in their shop -- or face prosecution. What I advised them to do was to negotiate private contracts with local bands. That way they help to promote local music/musicians without having to pay a fortune in rights. PRS hassled them for a while but then went away -- their legal powers can't over-ride a private contract; or rather they might, but if they went to court and lost it would weaken their powers to extort money from businesses nationally.

Today music isn't culture, or entertainment or a past-time -- it's a racket. Just like publishing and book sales, today the music industry promotes just a few artists into a mass market, in order to make a large return on a restricted product, rather than making it a more diverse market where the returns are individually smaller. At the same time their lobbying of political parties has whittled away at the public's fair dealing rights in order to extract more money from public performances.
sweat
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Post by sweat »

DominicJ wrote:Music is simply losing because its overpriced crap.

The vast majority of music is bought by young people.
The first entertainment gadget kids got in their room was a radio/cassette
Now most of them have HD TV and Sky multiroom.
They bought music, when they had no other choice, as soon as they had a choice, TV beat radio.

But then, there was mobile music, a Walkman/Discman/iPod.
But again, now its just as easy to watch a film on the move as it is to listen to music.

Game of Thrones on DVD is £28, for over 10 hours of footage.
Adeles Albulm 21 is £7.99 for 44minutes
Adele Costs £10 an hour, AGOTS a mere £2.80

Over time, a CD will come down to £7.50 an hour, but the entire Stargate SG1 series comes in at 50p per hour today.
You obviously just don't get music! It also seems a bit rich to slander music considering your apparent taste in Television.
The only sense that music could be 'losing' is in making money, again is this really a bad thing. I think it is possible to support yourself, yes, with gigs, vinyl, more specialised merchandise.
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DominicJ
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Post by DominicJ »

Whats wrong with my taste in TV?
Stargate Universe was awesome!
And AGOTS redefined television.

True, "music" isnt losing, so much as the current music industry.

I'd also be a bit less free with your opinion forming, I went to an "alternative" club with live music every week, almost without fail, for the better part of a decade 8)

But music is going to struggle in the face of "angry birds" and tv on the move.
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the_lyniezian
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Post by the_lyniezian »

Can we perhaps suppose that in fact, we have hit (cliched though it may sound) peak music?

(I'll explain what I mean later... if bothered).
Snail
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Post by Snail »

Nothing modern beats bob marley or jimi hendrix or bob dylan etc. Also, classical music and traditional folk songs or tunes. Why bother trying to find new music when I already have access to the cream o' the crop. New stuff just sounds like pale imitation anyway to my mind. Physical peak, maye not. Creative peak, definitely.
the_lyniezian
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Post by the_lyniezian »

Snail wrote:Nothing modern beats bob marley or jimi hendrix or bob dylan etc. Also, classical music and traditional folk songs or tunes. Why bother trying to find new music when I already have access to the cream o' the crop. New stuff just sounds like pale imitation anyway to my mind. Physical peak, maye not. Creative peak, definitely.
That's part of what I meant. As time wears on, and particularly this goes for certain 'genres', it seems to become harder to become creative and actually produce something most people are inclined to listen to. Like oil, it becomes harder to 'extract' worthwhile creativity, and you end up with a lower grade of output.

This goes in part from observations on how 'classical' music- and parhaps to some extent jazz- seems to have become more avant-garde as time went on, and (for me at least) less easy to listen to. Same for rock- people on another forum I recall were debating whether there was any new movement to 'save' rock, and none could be found- it'sjust recycling the same tired old formulae. I hypothesised that perhaps it was simply because all the good stuff that could be produced in the genre has effectively already been produced, and anything else will just be based on that.

I certainly agree with you in not being quite to bothered in finding new music when good older stuff is plentiful, though it's sometimes worth hoping. I may not listem to the same artists as you, though.

There is another, more serious facet to my 'peak music' hypothesis- that as technology progressed, music became more and more available- but now, it's so ubiquitous, it's become cheap, and demand for it as an actual paid-for product has peaked and is declining. Fewer people can be bothered to pay money for an actual recording, so they pirate, and fewer people are lesss likely to actually go out and listen to music when they can listen to it at home or on the move via [insert preferred personal stereo device/euphamism here] or in the car.

For a physical peak, we'd have to actually wait for some sort of decline/collapse in energy terms at least. As long as there is electricity to power our devices...
SleeperService
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Post by SleeperService »

Heard an 'interview' on the radio the other day where a faceless boyband of the moment mentioned their influences, Noel Gallagher and Westlife FFS :shock:

It seems as if 'pop' artists are reduced to copying each other hence the decline in quality. Record companies must also take a share of the blame as it's impossible to develope a loyality to a band that will manage one decent single hit, a reasonable first album then a poor second album if it appears at all.

I haven't a clue who the boyband was they were that memorable :?
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