Conservative party/opposition watch

[Stumuz2]

You think people voted to take back democracy, I think they voted for something else entirely.

Yep.
Because without democracy you get Putin and Von der Leyan. Autocrats on different points of the autocracy spectrum

[Mark]

One to send Mark into orbit!!

Boris likening Brexit to the Ukrainian war.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60809454

It's exactly the type of populist tripe I expect from Boris.
Until he said that, I thought he'd been doing reasonably well with the Ukraine situation.

Stumuz, explain to me one thing - why is Zelensky so keen for Ukraine to join the EU ?

[Stumuz2]

Stumuz, explain to me one thing - why is Zelensky so keen for Ukraine to join the EU ?

That's an easy one.
There are accretions of sovereignty and democracy. At the moment Ukraine is in a titanic struggle with an all powerful, abusive, and controlling neighbour. They see joining the EU as lesser all powerful, abusive, and controlling neighbour. Zelensky sees the punishment beating the EU gave to Greece, the behest of France and Germany , as preferable and more manageable than having the current Russian punishment beatings. There are hundreds of examples of EU lies, corruption, subversion of democracy (remember Silvio Berlusconi being unconstitutionally booted out by Juncker when he threatened to issue mini bonds and undermine the Euro?)

So, I hope they do join the EU. When their democracy is mature enough and they get a bail in to save too big to fail banks, they will then have a refernedum and probably leave.

The Ukrainians, like the British are willing to fight for democracy.

Don't tell the guardian or BBC they will get upset.

[Catweazle]

You think people voted to take back democracy, I think they voted for something else entirely.

Yep.
Because without democracy you get Putin and Von der Leyan. Autocrats on different points of the autocracy spectrum

Can you explain why there are 6 EU countries ranked above the UK in the World Democracy Index ?

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... -countries

Ukraine, ranked considerably lower as a "Hybrid Regime" would, as you predict, soon leave the EU - it's way too democratic for them.

[kenneal - lagger]

.................................................
Ukraine, ranked considerably lower as a "Hybrid Regime" would, as you predict, soon leave the EU - it's way too democratic for them.

Sixth out of about 140 will do me quite well thanks. Voting on just about everything like the Swiss do would get boring.

And Ukraine has only just got rid of an autocratic, would be Putin, and are still tfrying to get rid of the actual Putin so it might take them a little time to change their constitution as necessary to safeguard them in the future. That is if they are allowed full democratic freedoms by Putin in any peace settlement.

And most of us Brexiteers aren't stupid enough to think that it will be possible to rejoin the EU and keep any semblance of wealth. Rejoining the EU would see us in the same state that Greece, Italy and Spain have been in - destitute!!

[Stumuz2]

You think people voted to take back democracy, I think they voted for something else entirely.

Yep.
Because without democracy you get Putin and Von der Leyan. Autocrats on different points of the autocracy spectrum

Can you explain why there are 6 EU countries ranked above the UK in the World Democracy Index ?

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... -countries

Ukraine, ranked considerably lower as a "Hybrid Regime" would, as you predict, soon leave the EU - it's way too democratic for them.

And 21 below it!!

Seriously though, it's easy to sit in your remote smallholding in Wales (settled constitution and war free zone for over 300 years) and look down on Ukraine.They would happily swop places with you and your peaceful past and future.
We are one of the few advanced, developed, countries that hand over all political, economic, and military power after a general election.
Most countries have copied us. Just look at the continent of Europe over the last century. Governments murdering their citizens for their political beliefs and hiding the bodies in mass graves (Spain). Collaborating with invaders and assisting them in rounding up citizens en masse to hand over for salve labour or death, done with the fig leaf government authority Vichy(France) or the mass slaughter of millions of people because of an autocratic ideology (Germany)

So whatever taxonomy titbit gets put on your democracy index, we are a country that has led the way on democracy. Others talk a good job.

Having the right to vote out those who have law making powers over you is the sine qua non of a democratic society. It is precious. It's worth fighting for, even if the only people doing the fighting are perceived thick racists.

[Mark]

Boris Johnson 'regrets' comparing Ukraine war to Brexit:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... marks.html

What a spineless toad.
He believes it when it gets him a cheap round of applause at the Tory Conference.
Then he 'regrets' it when the crassness of what he's said filters through his cranium.

[Catweazle]

Sixth out of about 140 will do me quite well thanks. Voting on just about everything like the Swiss do would get boring.

UK is sixteenth in the list, there are six EU countries ahead of us amongst others. We score maximum points for electoral process, and are joint second place for "political participation" but our score is dragged a long way down by our "functioning of government". No surprise there.

[kenneal - lagger]

I haven't heard Putin apologising for anything.

That makes a huge difference, to me anyway.

[kenneal - lagger]

.............. but our score is dragged a long way down by our "functioning of government". No surprise there.

And MPs of no party are about to vote to get rid of the lobbyists who give them and their parties backhanders of various sorts to keep up the interests of their corporate employers. That is the main problem that we have with our form of government: Corporate Capture I think it is called.

[Catweazle]

And 21 below it!!

Hardly holding our democracy back was it ? We could clearly have improved our democracy considerably whilst remaining in the EU, six other countries managed it, and looking in more detail it appears that "functioning of government" is what dragged our score down - to joint 24th place. Can you blame the EU for that ?

[Catweazle]

.............. but our score is dragged a long way down by our "functioning of government". No surprise there.

And MPs of no party are about to vote to get rid of the lobbyists who give them and their parties backhanders of various sorts to keep up the interests of their corporate employers. That is the main problem that we have with our form of government: Corporate Capture I think it is called.

We do better in the Corruption Index, we're in joint 6th ( ish - there are a lot of ties ahead of us ), although some people dispute that.

[kenneal - lagger]

But does the corruption index include lobbying and the deceit that goes with it, not to mention the revolving door between the top of the civil service and business?

[Stumuz2]

Then he 'regrets' it when the crassness of what he's said filters through his cranium.

Wasn't crass. It was true.

[Stumuz2]

Hardly holding our democracy back was it ? We could clearly have improved our democracy considerably whilst remaining in the EU, six other countries managed it, and looking in more detail it appears that "functioning of government" is what dragged our score down - to joint 24th place. Can you blame the EU for that ?

What bit of inferiority complex self loathing person are you in that you prefer having unelected foreign nationals making your laws? Which you have no say in.