Brexit Watch

[Stumuz2]

The EU has on four occasions have now threatened to cut the UK's link to EU energy market. Latest trivial hissy fit threat of collective punishment being the French threat to cut off Jersey's Power supply in retaliation over fishing permits.
The UK has substantial wind energy resources. Because of the threats it looks like we will be making a substantial investment in Green hydrogen. As a way of using/profiting/geopolitically taking advantage of this excess wind resource and instead of making electric for the grid where it is connected to the EU electric market, and thus lowers electric prices for everyone (UK and EU), it will be instead be turned into green hydrogen and used in industry/ transport.

The pilot plant for this green hydrogen plant? Holyhead.

Yes, you read it correct. This forgotten backwater with the lowest GVA in the UK was mentioned by the Chancellor of the exchequer on budget day in March. Never in my life has my old hometown been mentioned in the budget speech.

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north- ... n-19986341

If this pilot plant is successful, Holyhead is on course to become hydrogen hub for a lot of the wind power down the west coast.

If you had spoken to any local politician pre brexit about energy, energy security, energy investment, the reply would have been the same old droning on about blah blah blah, but in essence, it would be our energy policy is whatever is the cheapest, and does not conflict with EU energy policy.

Then came brexit, then came EU threats, then came the Holyhead hydrogen hub. It would NEVER have happened had we stayed in the EU.

[kenneal - lagger]

I would be very interested to hear a convincing description of just what are the
benefits that Brexit has delivered so far.

We haven't been out of the EU for six months yet and you are expecting "instant gratification", Mark, and most other Remainers are the same come to that. Leaving the EU is a multi year project and I don't expect things will get better for a few years yet. It requires a whole readjustment of our trading systems from Eurocentric to global again but the coming demise of the EU will make it well worth while being out of that exploitative environment.

[Mark]

Certainly great news about the Anglesey hydrogen hub, but struggle to see how it can be attributed to Brexit ?
https://www.lleol.cymru/custom/domain_1 ... 3_6152.pdf
https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy ... -strategy/

The UK imported around 6% of its electricity in 2018 and 8% in 2019 - mostly from France, via the 2GW interconnector that opened in 1986 - agree with you that we would be wise to wean ourselves off this, or even reverse the flow, if we can... but shirley that will only be achieved by adding more electricity to the UK grid, rather than converting it to H2...., unless I'm being dense ?

[Mark]

We haven't been out of the EU for six months yet and you are expecting "instant gratification", Mark, and most other Remainers are the same come to that. Leaving the EU is a multi year project and I don't expect things will get better for a few years yet. It requires a whole readjustment of our trading systems from Eurocentric to global again but the coming demise of the EU will make it well worth while being out of that exploitative environment.

There you go again, attributing views to me that I haven't posted.....
For the nth time, I am not a 'Remainer' or lover of the EU - I didn't feel strongly enough either way so didn't vote in 2016.

I started this thread to discuss the positive/negative impacts of Brexit, not to rerun the Brexit debate.

If all the chaos that has been created is such a good thing, you, and other committed Brexiteers should be able to come up with a long list of 'positives' - however, all you've managed so far is a meek plea for patience and a vague hope for 'jam tomorrow', presumably with those very nice and non-exploitative Chinese, Americans, Indians, Russians etc...

[Stumuz2]

Certainly great news about the Anglesey hydrogen hub, but struggle to see how it can be attributed to Brexit ?

Simple, pre brexit we would have carried on buying the cheapest electricity and producing electricity just for the grid. The threats from ' our friends and partners' to cut us off from the interconnectors has forced our hand. Great!

The UK imported around 6% of its electricity in 2018 and 8% in 2019 - mostly from France, via the 2GW interconnector that opened in 1986 - agree with you that we would be wise to wean ourselves off this, or even reverse the flow, if we can... but shirley that will only be achieved by adding more electricity to the UK grid, rather than converting it to H2...., unless I'm being dense ?

Most of the interconnectors are so surpluses can be exchanged and used, thus efficiently using the energy and keeping the price down. Because we now cannot rely on the EU grid, we will have to become self sufficient. Great news. Hopefully next will be energy efficiency being taken more seriously and micro generation as well.

Which is very good news when the global carbon adjustment tax comes in. The energy future is looking a lot more promising than a few years ago.

[Mark]

Hopefully next will be energy efficiency being taken more seriously and micro generation as well.

There you go, something we can agree on

[Stumuz2]

At last!

[kenneal - lagger]

I'm sorry, Mark, if I gave the impression that I included you along with Remainers but this requirement for instant gratification is a problem for the whole world.

The EU insisted that we couldn't make any alternative trade arrangements before we had left so there was bound to be a lag in the benefits coming in. Remainers are keen to forget that as they berate us for not getting any instant gratification and I am sure that the EU wanted to delay any benefits that we might feel in case we could be persuaded to rejoin on their new terms, which many Remainers are suggesting, despite the fact that we would be forced to join the Euro at great expense to us and we would lose all the rebates that we formerly got. Some Remainers really are idiots.

[adam2]

Electrical interconnectors between any nations within a reasonable distance are IMHO a good thing. They give the flexibility to obtain extra supplies at time of crisis or emergency, and to import or export power as required.
What is NOT a good thing is to become a significant net importer of electricity and thus reliant on neighbours with whom we might fall out, there is also the risk that some failure of French infrastructure might leave them unable to export to us, even if politically willing.

We should IMO aim to export as least as much electricity as we import, averaged over say a year.
We therefore need to significantly expand renewable generating capacity in the UK, so as to meet the great majority of own needs AND have some to export in windy weather.

There is no merit in the French burning natural gas* to produce electricity when they could import wind power from us, at least in windy weather. The French would be well advised to retain gas* burning capacity for times of shortage or breakdown, but should limit the use of such plant so far as possible, in the interest of the enviroment.

*France has a lot of nuclear power, but gas is also used.

[kenneal - lagger]

I agree with increasing our generation capacity to make us self sufficient and I think we should build an interconnector to the Channel Islands to bring them into the British Isles and not be reliant upon "Perfidious France". We should also have some hydrogen as well as other storage so we can wave two fingers to the French (again) when required.

Never have been a fan of France as a nation although I have known a lot of very nice French people although that is not a very PC thing to say.

[BritDownUnder]

I can't see an electricity link from the UK just to the Channel Islands making sense other than for strategic reasons. There was a plan for a HVDC link to go from the UK to France via Alderney. The distance from the UK to Channel Islands is just too long for AC cables so has to be DC with greater costs.
I don't think the UK should scrap cables to France, better to hold a moratorium of usage to protest against cuts to the Jersey supply. From what I hear France has a rapidly aging fleet of nuclear reactors and may soon have power problems of its own. Being a larger and presumably sunnier country I would expect France could get more from solar and with a long Atlantic coastline maybe wind as well. I believe they have substantial hydro as well.

From what I hear the UK has a DC link to Norway under constructions and plans for links with Denmark, Germany and even Iceland in various stages of consideration. I would expect these countries to be a bit more rational with regard to energy than France.

[Potemkin Villager]

I would be very interested to hear a convincing description of just what are the
benefits that Brexit has delivered so far.

We haven't been out of the EU for six months yet and you are expecting "instant gratification", Mark, and most other Remainers are the same come to that. Leaving the EU is a multi year project and I don't expect things will get better for a few years yet. It requires a whole readjustment of our trading systems from Eurocentric to global again but the coming demise of the EU will make it well worth while being out of that exploitative environment.

No I do not expect instant gratification but one might have expected to see, at the very least, some tangible positive indicators by now. I will take your comment to mean that there have been no benefits at all and you don't see this changing anytime soon.

If the anticipated benefits continue to be deferred further and further into the future increasingly convoluted and dubious arguments, victim narrative etc, are going to have to be deployed for folk to convince themselves that four legs are good and two legs are bad irrespective of the facts.

[Stumuz2]

It's not a case of the UK scrapping the connectors, the EU has on four occasions threatened to cut them off. Jersey being the latest threat.
It is clear that the EU is on punishment mode because of Brexit. It has been stated may times by Macron, the commission, mep's etc.

But the Confucius saying rings true, "Seek revenge and you should dig two graves, one for yourself"

The UK will be forced to become more resilient in energy production. And the excess wind resources, instead of going into the EU energy system and lowering prices, will be diverted into green hydrogen, which will negate any carbon border adjustment tax on imports. A double bubble win for the UK.

[Stumuz2]

No I do not expect instant gratification but one might have expected to see, at the very least, some tangible positive indicators by now. I will take your comment to mean that there have been no indications at all and you don't see this changing anytime soon!

Holyhead Hydrogen hub does not count?

[Stumuz2]

How about freeports?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55819489