Greer absolutely nails it....

[Catweazle]

I once read that if all the old mills in Britain were restored to providing electrical power the generation would be in the region of 100 to 200 MW of power.

Many hill farmers in Wales have installed micro-hydro generation on their land and are making good money from them. I know a couple who own a clifftop farm near Cardigan who have been offered £20k per year to rent space for a single large wind turbine. You can live well on £20k pa around here.

[kenneal - lagger]

If that is a community owned wind turbine I would be interested in investing in that.

........................ Not so sure we want to go back to 12 hour plus days and 6 and a half day weeks though...........

Avoid employment with a merchant bank then. 90 hour weeks are quite common for them apparently.

[adam2]

There's a working mill near to Manchester owned by the National Trust that has been restored, or it never went derelict. I think it is called Styal Mill - I have not checked but it sounds right. Very interesting seeing it in action. Not so sure we want to go back to 12 hour plus days and 6 and a half day weeks though.

My 91 year old father still remembers belt driven mills and his much older brother, now dead, who I went round the mill with, was even telling the NT people there a thing or two about how things worked.

The 400 yard leet sounds interesting. I suppose they could just use a pipe and bury it but the 'man from the council' would probably not approve.
I once read that if all the old mills in Britain were restored to providing electrical power the generation would be in the region of 100 to 200 MW of power.

Generating 100 or 200 MW from existing water mill sites could be worthwhile, but before any undue optimism breaks out, remember that it is a fraction of one percent of national demand.
UK peak demand is about 50 GW, so 0.1 GW is about 0.2% of peak demand, or perhaps about 0.4% of off peak demand. Better than not having that capacity, but still a small contribution.

Use of line shafting to drive factory machinery largely "went out with the war" Though a few installations remained in use longer than that. Rather dangerous by todays standards. Electric power is generally simpler and safer.

[Catweazle]

My memory is not entirely clear, but I seem to remember that my friends average sized water wheel was estimated to produce 6KW.

[clv101]

I'm reading Fossil Capital by Andreas Malm at the moment. Fascinating account of steam, very gradually replacing water in British mills, the economics was for from obvious when water was free! Typical early 19th century water wheels were generating 60hp with big installations over 200hp, they were reliable (lasting decades), simple (the knowledge to build, operate and maintain was common) and the quality of the power, and hence the quality of the cloth was better than with steam. Water wheels gave perfectly smooth rotation, constant torque. Steam on the other hand was 'jerky' and this showed in the weaving!

[BritDownUnder]

Sounds a very interesting book that. I have found a copy and will read when time and gardening allow.

I think the main reason why steam was introduced was that even in rainy Lancashire there were droughts now and then and there would have been period when the mill was idle and the owners would not want that. There were also times in winter when the water was flowing well but short days did not allow much work to take place. Steam was therefore introduced and along with Jevons' paradox it became dominant. There are a lot of YouTube videos about this mill, also called Quarry Bank, and it even gets the Fred Dibnah treatment.
I think there is also another mill in Belper, Derbyshire that has always been water powered, probably changing waterwheels for water-turbines some time along the way.

I think a 6kW waterwheel would go well towards powering a house, possibly along with some solar and batteries.

[UndercoverElephant]

Indeed, we bought our field (couldn't afford anything as sophisticated as a house!) in 2013 and we wouldn't have been able to afford it had we waited another 5 years... And currently, the rural market or any house with even a large garden is crazy money.

We've just decided we're moving to the Teifi valley. Only place we can afford it. Can't go yet though, because my mother is still alive and in a local nursing home.

[UndercoverElephant]

A couple of years ago it was possible to buy a Welsh smallholding with a couple of detached houses, huge outbuildings and 10 acres of decent land for the price of a 3 bedroom semi-detached in the South East. The lack of work is what has kept the prices down, but Covid has shown many people that they can work remotely and they're looking for smallholdings.

The Smallholding Centre estate agents used to have pages of properties for sale in West Wales, now they have been stripped bare. The community facebook pages regularly have people asking for properties to buy.

http://www.thesmallholdingcentre.co.uk/

This might be a bubble brought on by lockdown, or it might be a longer trend because of remote-working and people wanting a better quality of life. Either way, it has good and bad effects on the rural locations. It pushes housing out of the reach of many locals and dilutes their culture. On the other hand it brings new skills into the area, and if people are retiring here then that frees-up housing in the South East where the jobs are, allowing young Welsh to move to the work.

We are watching this closely. I think the market is currently very distorted by lockdown.

[Catweazle]

We are watching this closely. I think the market is currently very distorted by lockdown.

You might be right, but there are other factors. Elon Musks StarNet aims to bring superfast broadband to many properties who haven't managed to get a phone line or even a mobile phone signal before. If I was looking to invest in property I'd be looking at those remote farmhouses, if not to live in then for the AirBnB market - the parents love the peace and quiet, the kids insist on fast internet.

[clv101]

Indeed, we bought our field (couldn't afford anything as sophisticated as a house!) in 2013 and we wouldn't have been able to afford it had we waited another 5 years... And currently, the rural market or any house with even a large garden is crazy money.

We've just decided we're moving to the Teifi valley. Only place we can afford it. Can't go yet though, because my mother is still alive and in a local nursing home.

It's a great place, good luck finding something suitable.

[BritDownUnder]

We are watching this closely. I think the market is currently very distorted by lockdown.

You might be right, but there are other factors. Elon Musks StarNet aims to bring superfast broadband to many properties who haven't managed to get a phone line or even a mobile phone signal before. If I was looking to invest in property I'd be looking at those remote farmhouses, if not to live in then for the AirBnB market - the parents love the peace and quiet, the kids insist on fast internet.

Good luck with the move. Can't be any worse than Hastings? I think you currently live. Some of those properties looked amazing. Better learn Welsh though - the language of my ancestors. Whenever I lived in the South-East or London I absolutely hated the place and the people. Consider Shropshire as well although my knowledge of the place is 20 years old now.

I am not sure that Starlink will be superfast internet. From what I have read it will be about as fast as the internet I have now in a small Australian country town on the National Fibre network. Not sure about the data caps as well. Existing Australian satellite data caps are very onerous.

[Catweazle]

We've just decided we're moving to the Teifi valley. Only place we can afford it. Can't go yet though, because my mother is still alive and in a local nursing home.

We rented a place for 6 months so as to get a feel for the area, it actually took a year to find the right place, but it was time well spent.

I've learned some lessons. Traditional Welsh stone houses are picturesque, but the windows are small, the walls are very thick - so they're dark and they are a bitch to heat. Our main house doesn't look so charming now it has 90mm of insulation around it but it's a lot warmer, still dark though.

The house we rented was a modern timber framed bungalow, it was quite warm and bright but it moved in the wind and like all the new-builds had no land.

We're close to Cardigan, 10 minutes away but secluded down a private road, and I feel that's ideal distance from town. Many small villages are dead, depressing places - you'll want to be close to somewhere with a bit of life and culture.

https://www.visitcardigan.com/

The Teifi valley is a "first welsh" area, schools are mostly Welsh language but we haven't had any problems as "outsiders" since our farmer neighbours learned we weren't going to tell them all to become vegans. Apparently that's quite common.

Work has been very easy for both of us to find, there is a lack of technical skills to fill the companies trying to start up. There are also a load of "McMansions" springing up, so if you have building skills you'll be OK.

[adam2]

I would not worry about an old house being dark.
Modern LED lighting is so cheap to run, from either grid power or renewables, that continual electric lighting is no longer a problem.

Cold is more of a problem, but not insurmountable.

[UndercoverElephant]

Can't be any worse than Hastings?

Worse?

Hastings is alright. Compared to most places in the south-east there is a lot of open space, nearby woodland and a spectacular bit of coastline. And a nice culture. The problem is purely the price of any property with even a small amount of land.

Consider Shropshire as well although my knowledge of the place is 20 years old now.

I love Shropshire, especially the canals. But it is further from my wife's family, colder, and more expensive than south-west Wales.

[UndercoverElephant]

We're close to Cardigan, 10 minutes away but secluded down a private road, and I feel that's ideal distance from town. Many small villages are dead, depressing places - you'll want to be close to somewhere with a bit of life and culture.

What about Newcastle Emlyn?

The Teifi valley is a "first welsh" area, schools are mostly Welsh language

You mean bi-lingual, surely?

Work has been very easy for both of us to find,

Not a problem for us. Wife is an editor, my second foraging book comes out next year and I should be able to live on royalties after that. Currently working on a novel.