Greece Watch...

stumuzz · Post by **stumuzz** » 24 May 2012, 16:09

Oh well, I have made my point.

Its 24 c outside the office so time to take the boat down to the beach and catch something nice for dinner. In about two hours it will be consumed with a cold lager.

Enjoy your internet threats/ramblings and incitements about bankers.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 24 May 2012, 16:23

Taking a life is wrong and I don't think anyone here is seriously calling for it in the case of the bankers (certainly not me anyway).

Justice combined with a righting of wrongs is what's required. More than jail time, some of the more civilised punishments would be welcome - the crook working for the wronged or handing over her assets to the wronged, for instance.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 24 May 2012, 16:37

http://tube.7s-b.com/video/J3Ex4okWm-M/ ... -E252.html

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 24 May 2012, 17:35

emordnilap wrote:Taking a life is wrong and I don't think anyone here is seriously calling for it in the case of the bankers (certainly not me anyway).

Justice combined with a righting of wrongs is what's required. More than jail time, some of the more civilised punishments would be welcome - the crook working for the wronged or handing over her assets to the wronged, for instance.

Jesus wept, what kind of sadist are you?

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 24 May 2012, 18:01

You'd prefer jail?

Fair enough.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 24 May 2012, 19:11

emordnilap wrote:You'd prefer jail?

Fair enough.

I was attempting to be (unsuccessfully) funny E.

I guess the point I was making is that the punishments you have outlined are likely, in my opinion, to be far more effective due to the fact that they operate at an immediate moral and human level and are directly designed to imbue a degree of humility in the perpetrator, which is why I would wager your average investment banker would wish to avoid them like the plague. Which is a pretty good indicator that they would likely be effective.

JavaScriptDonkey · Post by **JavaScriptDonkey** » 24 May 2012, 22:24

So it's descended to mob threats to hang the nameless bankers (but not the ones we know 'cos they're all right) and a blanket defence for the actions of our military under the catch all 'they were only following orders'.

Do I need to invoke Godwin to draw the parallel?

SleeperService · Post by **SleeperService** » 24 May 2012, 22:24

stumuzz wrote:My daughters a banker and i'm very proud of her. She worked hard for her law degree and is doing well.

And there is the problem. A law degree and works in banking...if she gets promoted she could end up running the bank with only what she's picked up on the way to guide her. Bit like the people who got us into this mess in the first place.

What next surgeons with degrees in media studies? About as relevant.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 24 May 2012, 22:59

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:Do I need to invoke Godwin to draw the parallel?

Why not?

Hitler was very similar to the current crop of investment *ankers.

He ****ed up Europe as well.

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 25 May 2012, 00:09

OK. tin hat on...

I'm very uncomfortable about the "lynch mob" mentality being displayed in this thread. Don't get me wrong; I'm not defending the bankers. I have personal experience of spending five years helping my son get out of debt as a result of reckless lending as soon as he hit 18.

The point is, a lot of us have been reversing blindfolded into the future. We've all been riding the fossil fuel bonanza. Collectively as a society we have organised ourselves around personal car transportation and consumerism. Nobody forced us to do so, but itwas natural to grab the low hanging fruit that was within reach and enjoy the easy life that resulted from it.

We could have said no to credit. We could have questioned big corporate conglomerates' ethical credentials, the government could have regulated the financial sector more effectively. We could have said no to the sell-off of our infrastructure to foreign companies. We could have voted against re-electing the government that sold off the social housing stock.

But we didn't. Some of us did, but not all of us. So, we've all had a part to play IMHO. To single out "the bankers" (whatever that actually means) I think is counter productive. I believe it is an emotional response at a time when the country needs a lot of level-headed thinking.

(And no, I don't have The Answer, but I do know that exacting retribution on "the bankers" is probably not it).

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 25 May 2012, 07:47

Tarrel wrote:I believe it is an emotional response at a time when the country needs a lot of level-headed thinking.

Leaving aside our collective bravado for a moment

, you are, of course, quite right.

The trouble is, we are not seeing the changes required.

There has been a call for a return to a regulated banking system since the size of the problem became apparent in 2008.

What changes have we seen to date? Sweet **** all!

Meanwhile, the investment banking sector continues to reap the rewards while the public at large has to foot the bill.

We've had quantitative easing to replenish their coffers.

We've witnessed the return of their extremely generous

bonus schemes.

We've seen the lack of investment in small businesses and the shrinkages in the mortgage market.

The profitable parts of Northern Rock have been sold off to 'laughing boy' for a song, while the public continues to be harnessed with the toxic debt.

Tarrel, I have taken all of your points on board and please believe me when I say that no one on this forum is seriously suggesting that physical harm should befall a *anker.

I guess, for many on this forum, it's just an opportunity to express one's anger at a system that continues to act in such a profligate and cavalier fashion.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 25 May 2012, 07:54

Cartoon courtesy of The Independent - 25/05/12

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 25 May 2012, 07:57

"I guess for many on this forum, it's an opportunity to express one's anger..."

Fair enough. Better out than in. Thanks for an honest and measured response.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 25 May 2012, 08:57

The Independent - 25/05/12

Greece: Out of cash, out of hope

As politicians wrangle, the daily reality of the eurozone crisis is driving Greeks to despair.

Article continues ...

Yesterday, a 60-year old unemployed musician thrust his 90-year old mother off their rooftop in central Athens before jumping to his death himself, witness said.

A neighbour told Greek television that the pair had financial problems and were living off the mother's pension.

Here's the real Greek tragedy.

SleeperService · Post by **SleeperService** » 25 May 2012, 09:03

Bravo Tarrel and Aurora. I think you've hit the issue dead centre. I have tended to identify the people who have caused the problem as the issue when it's the system they've created that needs destroying.

IMHO we're now past the point where an orderly transition to a new equitable and sustainable system could have been introduced. That does tend to make me a bit more reactive than usual. There are two factors that really rankle

First the pressures in Greece are very similar to those here in the UK but TPTB are applying the same measures that failed there.

Second is that we seem to elect people who consistently put other interests ahead of the UK population. The last time that didn't happen was when Churchill was brought in. (Skirting Godwin's law?)