Rise of far right an ominous echo

[extractorfan]

more energy = more life.
.................
fossil fuels were an energy lottery win.

Only for human life, there's a lot less other life

[ceti331]

Only for human life, there's a lot less other life

right i'm aware of the current mass extinction.
i do generally follow the gaia type theory... that our actions will eventually feed back and homo sapiens will be marginalized (outright extinction unlikely), once our fossil-fueled bubble expires.
Only symbiotic species survive in the longrun.

under this picture 'cancer' is the best analogy for what humans are now ... rapid growth destroying the whole.

[ceti331]

Capitalism can't solve the population problem? Hope your wrong about that one. Quite a few of the centers of capitalism already have birth rates at or below replacement level. The problem seems to reside where capitalism is weak.

this is simply because the energy is burning itself through machines rather than humans.
halving the birth rate at the expense of double resources per child doesn't help us.

[vtsnowedin]

Capitalism can't solve the population problem? Hope your wrong about that one. Quite a few of the centers of capitalism already have birth rates at or below replacement level. The problem seems to reside where capitalism is weak.

this is simply because the energy is burning itself through machines rather than humans.
halving the birth rate at the expense of double resources per child doesn't help us.

But they can be two separate problems. Halve the birth rate then work on the resources per child. If you don't do the birth rate first then reducing the consumption per child is futile.
There is a lot in your previous posts that I agree with. The use of fossil fuels has been the catalyst for population growth. The style of government plays a much smaller role though the capitalist approach being much more efficient then the other options does allow the use of fossil fuels to create the maximum rate of population growth. But that does not make it the evil cause of the population problem.

[UndercoverElephant]

However, anybody can create a strange semi-occult secret society - you and I could tomorrow but it would mean nothing. Why? Because neither of us are rich or powerful - ultimnately it is the class role of these societies which make them interesting.

Well, yes and no. The occult aspect is not, in my view, insignificant. It is possible that symbols, gestures and imagery really do acquire power through repeated use. If you take the view, as I do, that consciousness rather than matter is at the heart of reality, it makes a lot of sense. But to each his own.

The occult aspect of Skull & Bones is just about understanding the briefness of existence. Laying out an initiate in their coffin gets them to contemplate their death and how damn close it is. Do great things and do them now because tomorrow may be too late.

Perhaps there is something going on that you've missed?

[UndercoverElephant]

Capitalism can't solve the population problem? Hope your wrong about that one. Quite a few of the centers of capitalism already have birth rates at or below replacement level.

Those places also have totally unsustainable levels of consumption.

But that is not as large a problem as unchecked population growth.

It's all part of the same problem. The only real difference is that we started the process towards industrialisation first.

I reside in what is arguably the strongest capitalist country in the world. I am surrounded by trees and am sitting next to a cheery wood fire.

Yes, the US has a lot of land. some of which has trees on it. The point I was trying to make was that you can't seperate what is going on in the developing world from what is going on in the developed world, because we are all part of the same system. The only reason people in the UK aren't burning through their own natural resources at an immediately-disastrous rate is because they depend on importing resources from the developing world. And as far as population goes - we've already had a massive population boom (in Europe) at the same time we chopped down most of the forests. The situation in North America is completely different, because the inhabitants of that continent were still mainly hunter-gatherers until about 400 years ago.

[vtsnowedin]

Those places also have totally unsustainable levels of consumption.

But that is not as large a problem as unchecked population growth.

It's all part of the same problem. The only real difference is that we started the process towards industrialisation first.

I reside in what is arguably the strongest capitalist country in the world. I am surrounded by trees and am sitting next to a cheery wood fire.

Yes, the US has a lot of land. some of which has trees on it. The point I was trying to make was that you can't seperate what is going on in the developing world from what is going on in the developed world, because we are all part of the same system. The only reason people in the UK aren't burning through their own natural resources at an immediately-disastrous rate is because they depend on importing resources from the developing world. And as far as population goes - we've already had a massive population boom (in Europe) at the same time we chopped down most of the forests. The situation in North America is completely different, because the inhabitants of that continent were still mainly hunter-gatherers until about 400 years ago.

You are missing the point. The forest on the eastern USA have been cut down and they have grown back because----- Wait for it------ It is a RENEWABLE resource.

[Ludwig]

If I am wrong please explain your philosophy. I am genuinely interested, I have had many conversations on this matter in my time.

Actually, when I wrote that everything is "consciousness", I really meant that everything is "spirit". Spirit incorporates the phenomena of consciousness as well as the phenomena of the subconscious and of the "superconscious".

On one level the Indians of New Mexico had it right: there is no past, present and future, there is only the Manifest (that which is perceived directly) and the Manifesting (that which remains in the realm of possibility).

I don't have a coherent explanation of all this, and I think there probably isn't one. There is belief, only belief. We all believe something, even if it's that we live in a purely material world governed at bottom by random events.

[vtsnowedin]

[I don't have a coherent explanation of all this, and I think there probably isn't one. There is belief, only belief. We all believe something, even if it's that we live in a purely material world governed at bottom by random events.

I have to agree with you on the coherency issue.
Your thinking on a much higher plane then I care to rummage around in. Or perhaps you are just much higher when you are thinking.
Cut a tree ,build a fire , get warm = reality.

[JavaScriptDonkey]

[I don't have a coherent explanation of all this, and I think there probably isn't one. There is belief, only belief. We all believe something, even if it's that we live in a purely material world governed at bottom by random events.

I have to agree with you on the coherency issue.
Your thinking on a much higher plane then I care to rummage around in. Or perhaps you are just much higher when you are thinking.
Cut a tree ,build a fire , get warm = reality.

One of the funniest replies I've read in ages

[RenewableCandy]

You are missing the point. The forest on the eastern USA have been cut down and they have grown back because----- Wait for it------ It is a RENEWABLE resource.

Speaking as a renewable resource myself, I feel I must weigh in here. The speed at which the resource renews itself, compared to how fast it is being used, is pretty critical. In the USA there's land enough to set bits aside to re-grow trees while others are felled. Here in Europe with about 1 person in every 2 acres of land, that's not really an option. Unless we go PassivHaus and use A LOT less wood for heating.

[vtsnowedin]

You are missing the point. The forest on the eastern USA have been cut down and they have grown back because----- Wait for it------ It is a RENEWABLE resource.

Speaking as a renewable resource myself, I feel I must weigh in here. The speed at which the resource renews itself, compared to how fast it is being used, is pretty critical. In the USA there's land enough to set bits aside to re-grow trees while others are felled. Here in Europe with about 1 person in every 2 acres of land, that's not really an option. Unless we go PassivHaus and use A LOT less wood for heating.

Yes I do not envy your position. You will have some hard choices to make in the future. I have to wonder about those proposals to build large wood chip burning biomass plants in the UK . They sound like another business plan modeled on the Solara concept.
Here in Vt it is 78% forested which gives over seven acres of forest per capita and 85% of that forest is in private hands.The numbers will probably change as the demand for wood increases but with proper management we could produce enough to meet our needs indefinitely. That is if we don't export it to the UK to burn it in a biomass plant.

[RenewableCandy]

We'll try not to take it off you There's a campaign against biomass-for-electric in the UK on the grounds that if it's shipped in the C-footprint is bad, and if it's local we run out of land for little luxuries such as food (and if it's waste, why the heck are we wasting so much??). Very few of these proposed devices include a heat main. If you ask me that's bloody bonkers.

[vtsnowedin]

We'll try not to take it off you There's a campaign against biomass-for-electric in the UK on the grounds that if it's shipped in the C-footprint is bad, and if it's local we run out of land for little luxuries such as food (and if it's waste, why the heck are we wasting so much??). Very few of these proposed devices include a heat main. If you ask me that's bloody bonkers.

If the price rises fast enough we'll be glad to skin it all off for the highest bidder. Capitalism don't you know.
If you activist and cost conscious people keep the pressure on you can make them consider the entire energy (and Carbon) budget for these plants from the stump through processing, shipping ,burning all the way to the ash heap. What they do with the spent steam after the turbines is a good question and I can't imagine a viable project that doesn't make full use of it. A heat main to Chateau Renewable" to keep the little Renewables cozy should be a minimum I would think.

[RenewableCandy]

Incredibly, heat mains just aren't usually thought of, and I'm not sure they do anything particularly intelligent with the ash, either. I mean, it'd be great as fertiliser on the Plot but here in Yorkshire they're set to blow £2Bn on a new Potash mine while they're probably going to throw away, or contaminate, ash from biomass plants. It makes me f***ing livid, how daft people can be...and this is in Yorkshire, we're supposed to be frugal types in this part o't'country. 'Appen.