The inherent flaw of capitalism

[biffvernon]

Found on twitter

First they tell us to go out a buy stuff to boost the economy. Now we have to pay off debts. Does anyone listen anymore? #creditcardgate

I know UK politics is full of spin, but a prime minister prebutting his own party conference speech is surely a first. #creditcardgate

Spend less. Er, no, that won't work..Spend more! #creditcardgate

Proof then the PM does not understand the economy #cpc11 #creditcardgate

[kenneal - lagger]

All it proves is that the economy is f****d!!

[JohnB]

Apparently (according to The World at One on Radio 4) he intended to say that some people are paying off their debts, not that people should .

[biffvernon]

You mean Cameron did not agree with his own speech before releasing it to the press? About as much chance of that as of the Home Secretary thinking illegal immigrants are allowed to stay in Britain if they have a cat.

[SleeperService]

Apparently (according to The World at One on Radio 4) he intended to say that some people are paying off their debts, not that people should .

So either
a) he can't read and talk at the same time
b) he can't read and talk at the same time and is unaware that is so
c) a pathetic bit of spin doctoring has just happened

and these are the people who are going to sort out the mess we're in?

[kenneal - lagger]

You mean Cameron did not agree with his own speech before releasing it to the press? About as much chance of that as of the Home Secretary thinking illegal immigrants are allowed to stay in Britain if they have a cat.

He told the truth which offended a lot of people so he had to change his speach.

[Ludwig]

I was introduced (an persuaded of its benefits) by a nun when I was about six years old. She was a temporary teacher and very nice. She held up the pen she used and told the class it was not her per but our pen, that in her community nobody had any personal possessions but that everybody saw to it that everybody else had all they needed. To my six year old mind it seemed a smart way to organise things. And I've not entirely changed my mind.

But that's not socialism, Biff, that's community.

It's still antithetical to capitalism.

[biffvernon]

Went to a lecture by Michael Wadleigh (Director of Woodstock film) yesterday at the Schumacher Centenary conference in Bristol. He used, as analogy for our planet of finite resources, the Space Station. This is a closed system (at least until the next Shuttle delivery) with regards to materials. The ten astronauts have quite a lot of stuff - musical instruments, games etc, - to keep them amused, but there is no room for private ownership. Everything is shared. His point was that the Earth is a closed system as regards materials so we need to make stuff that is fit for good purpose, lasts a long time and is shared.

Yes, antithetical to capitalism.

[kenneal - lagger]

It's antithetical to consumerism not capitalism. It's consumerism that requires the constant churning of STUFF to keep going. Change the rules slightly and capitalism will still work. Book libraries work under capitalism, so why not tool libraries, or any other library for that matter?

[emordnilap]

Book libraries work under capitalism, so why not tool libraries, or any other library for that matter?

Surely they only exist because they're a leftover from socialism? We're being told we have to do away with them because of capitalism!

In other words, yes they work under capitalism, but not unbridled capitalism.

[kenneal - lagger]

Our library in Newbury was called the Carnegie Library after its benefactor. Can't get much more unbridled than a Victorian era capitalist!

Andrew Carnegie 1835 - 1919 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Carnegie)

Some of our rich industrialists today still have charitable foundations, The Gates Foundation for instance, but I think they now act to support Big Business rather than the downtrodden people.

[woodpecker]

John Passmore Edwards was a similar philanthropist, funding many libraries (16 in London), art galleries (e.g. the Whitechapel) and hospitals and so on. My local library was funded by him.

There aren't many like him these days.

BTW, the Gates Foundation gives most of its money to health projects in developing countries.

[RichUSA]

Is an unintended consequence of capitalism the realization of the socialist goal? The constant drive to compete reduces the exchange of goods and sevices to the slimest possible margins. Therefore all providers of goods and services would always move tward solely mutual beneficial exchange of those goods and services with absolute minimal profit (just enough to live) i.e. Socialism. [/quote]

[UndercoverElephant]

Is an unintended consequence of capitalism the realization of the socialist goal? The constant drive to compete reduces the exchange of goods and sevices to the slimest possible margins. Therefore all providers of goods and services would always move tward solely mutual beneficial exchange of those goods and services with absolute minimal profit (just enough to live) i.e. Socialism.

[/quote]

Capitalism is about maximising profits, not minimising them.

[Ludwig]

Is an unintended consequence of capitalism the realization of the socialist goal? The constant drive to compete reduces the exchange of goods and sevices to the slimest possible margins. Therefore all providers of goods and services would always move tward solely mutual beneficial exchange of those goods and services with absolute minimal profit (just enough to live) i.e. Socialism.

There's no sign of this having happened. At the point where slimmest possible margins take hold, the competitors form cartels and/or buy each other out.

In the end, capitalists want money and power, and if it ever looks as though their system might be failing, they work with politicians to institute a new system. At the current point in time, the background work for this new system has already been done.