Is there a Doctor in the House?

[nexus]

One of the nurses commented on the gratifyingly constant flow of
men, and it is predominantly men for some strange reason, who present at A+E after being attacked by apparently inaminate objects such as saws, drill bits, hammers, nail guns, blow lamps, axes, chisels........ and they are just as likely to be "professionals" as overenthusiastic DIYers.

I knew someone who suffered third degree burns when there was a fireball in the kitchen he was working in. He'd been using substantial amounts of nitromors, the vapours of which eventually reached the aga pilot light. In the burns unit he met many other men who had similar accidents including one who had used a candle inside a tent....

Personally I think that many guys (and I speak as a woman) have that Clarkson-esque attitude to health and safety- which is why a disproportionate amount end up in hospital.

I wonder if rationing on the NHS begins in ernest, 'self inflicted accidents' will be included in the list of ailments that won't be treated. Personally I would hate to see that, but it's very noticable that many people who believe that people who smoke (or whatever), shouldn't get treatment, are the same ones who'll quite happily be treated for a serious DIY accident, a long term rugby/skiing/whatever injury or a car accident whilst speeding.

[stumuzz]

Personally I think that many guys (and I speak as a woman) have that Clarkson-esque attitude to health and safety- which is why a disproportionate amount end up in hospital.

No, men have no anthropological risk sensors. It allowed us to hunt and provide effectively when we were chasing mamouth in the forest. Mens testosterone makes them blind to risk.Women are very highly tuned to risk and are very risk averse mainly because of their estrogen, again for anthropological reasons, to ensure their prodigy reached adulthood.

This is why men are almost without exception the people whom die at work. Again the reasons are men, even today, do the most dangerous jobs. There does not seem to be a great drive, either politically or culturally, in this age of equality, for women to account for 50% of miners, labourers, construction workers or long distance lorry drivers.

Also Cancer Research UK have released a report stating that men are 40% more likely to die of cancer than women and men are 16% more likely to develop it in the first place. After excluding gender-specific cancers, the difference between men and women was even greater, with men being about 70% more likely to die from cancer than women. On average, statistics show that women live seven years longer than men.

Again, the increase cancer incidence can be linked to the lack of estrogen in men and the exposure both domestic and occupational to hazardous substances.

So to precis a complicated subject, men die and injure themselves and their health, because women choose not to!

It would be a good idea to pay men more for doing these dangerous jobs that women do not want to do

[caspian]

Personally I think that many guys (and I speak as a woman) have that Clarkson-esque attitude to health and safety- which is why a disproportionate amount end up in hospital.

I think that's true, and if anything it seems to be even more prevalent in the older generation of men. Our neighbour is 80, but quite active, and has an abiding hatred of anything that smells of "Health and Safety". He literally bristles at the mere words. The guy gives me nightmares over what he gets up to. One time he was demonstrating to me the use of a holesaw attached to a power drill. He was using it to drill a hole in a piece of wood, pressing against the palm of his hand on the other side of the wood. Another time he was cutting down some trees on land belonging to a farmer neighbour of ours. He was standing on a bank, but lost his footing. The chainsaw fell from his grip and only just missed him (he got burned by the engine - that's how close it was!). He had quite a few cuts and bruises from the fall, but all his extremities were still attached. I don't think the farmer, who was with him at the time luckily, has quite recovered from the shock - he initially thought that the blood gushing from the wound in the guy's head was from the chainsaw.

[caspian]

I agree totally with emor's more general points and applaud the selfless generosity of nice Mr Cameroon and our kind friends in Germany and Washington......

I wouldn't be so quick to applaud the UK's "generosity", because it's you and future generations who are going to be paying it back at a walloping interest rate.

[UndercoverElephant]

I wonder if rationing on the NHS begins in ernest, 'self inflicted accidents' will be included in the list of ailments that won't be treated. Personally I would hate to see that, but it's very noticable that many people who believe that people who smoke (or whatever), shouldn't get treatment, are the same ones who'll quite happily be treated for a serious DIY accident, a long term rugby/skiing/whatever injury or a car accident whilst speeding.

The argument about smokers is bogus for two reasons. Firstly, smokers contribute a vast amount of money to government coffers (ha!) through taxes. Do you know how much a packet of 20 cigarettes costs these days? Secondly, they tend to die younger and more quickly than non-smokers, meaning they actually cost the NHS less.

As for self-inflicted injuries being one of the things which gets cut out when the NHS is struggling for resources....I don't think so. One-off treatments of this sort is not what eats up the NHS's resources. The real problem is dealing with the large numbers of elderly and other people with long-term chronic illnesses. In these cases the NHS ends up just keeping people alive for lengthy periods of time, often with a poor quality of life and little hope of any improvement. Given the UK's current demographic situation, dealing with Alzheimer's alone could break the NHS's budget.

[nexus]

As for self-inflicted injuries being one of the things which gets cut out when the NHS is struggling for resources....I don't think so. One-off treatments of this sort is not what eats up the NHS's resources.

Granted, but some of these self inflicted injuries do cause long term chronic problems like bad backs needing physio and pills, knees problems which require operations etc.

I think it's a really difficult area, I really don't want to see any rationing, but you can make a good argument that some personal responsibility needs to be exercised too- but where do you draw the line?

I absolutely wouldn't want smokers to be denied treatment, my point was that I've heard people say about not treating smokers and these same people sometimes injure themselves through their own actions (eg dangerous sports, ignoring health and safety, careless driving etc) and expect treatment, but they would still look down on smokers and others.

[katie]

The OP's story sounds absolutely ridiculous. My DH had an identical slip-up with a hacksaw one evening and, after cleaning the wound, off we went to A&E. He saw the triage nurse who looked it it, declared that it needed a few stitches & then we went back to the waiting room and waited and waited. After three hours he went to the triage nurse & said he'd just go to out local surgery next day and get the nurse to stitch it. She said that it had to be done ASAP and we waited another hour then went home as there were still 6-7 people to be seen before him. I washed it again with povidone Iodine, rinsed it, pulled the edges together with steristrips & put a sterile dressing on. I did this daily as the cut healed up & it was OK. I am qualified to stitch, but don't keep any equipment at home. Thepoint of this is to contrast my DH being told that the wound had to be stitched ASAP and the OP being given a bed for the night and stitched the next day. It's mad.

Katie

[Potemkin Villager]

I agree totally with emor's more general points and applaud the selfless generosity of nice Mr Cameroon and our kind friends in Germany and Washington......

I wouldn't be so quick to applaud the UK's "generosity", because it's you and future generations who are going to be paying it back at a walloping interest rate.

Well we will see about that!

I agree with Katie that the story is ridiculous but honestly, as I keep saying more and more, you just couldn't make this sort of thing up.

As far as the needless overnight was concerned I think it was because the specialist was looking for people for his junior doctor to practice on and he wasn't rostered in until the next morning......

My question remains as to why highly qualified and highly paid GP's
get away with passing simple injury patch ups on to an A+E, and incur huge extra costs to the system, rather than roll up their sleeves and do it themselves?

It is more than just mad....

[emordnilap]

Roger:

Just to confirm for the likes of Katie, this is the HSE you're talking about in your original post, right? Not the NHS?

I agree totally with emor's more general points and applaud the selfless generosity of nice Mr Cameroon and our kind friends in Germany and Washington......

I wouldn't be so quick to applaud the UK's "generosity", because it's you and future generations who are going to be paying it back at a walloping interest rate.

It's patently obvious that the debt is unrepayable. We'e just biding our time.

[Potemkin Villager]

Yes it is the HSE in the Republic of Ireland and the hospital is Letterkenny General Hospital in Co Donegal.

I wonder though if the performance would have been any different if I had been feferred by a GP to Altnagelvin Hospital (NHS) just across the border in Northern Ireland?

[emordnilap]

A typical story:

A friend was given a chitty by his doctor to get an x-ray of his knee in preparation for seeing a specialist in two weeks.

As the surgery was near the hospital, he dropped in with the chitty.

The woman in x-ray looked at it and said 'Three weeks' and started to fill in a form. There were no other patients in the department at the time. He said he'd be seeing the specialist in the next city in two weeks. She said, 'You'll probably get an x-ray there. Let me know if you do and I'll cancel this one."

It begs several questions, mainly, what was this woman's job? Why not employ a radiographer instead? Dentists do x-rays on the spot. It takes not much more than seconds. Why three weeks?

Infuriatingly, the local council has just given planning permission for a private hospital way out of town.

[happychicken]

My question remains as to why highly qualified and highly paid GP's
get away with passing simple injury patch ups on to an A+E, and incur huge extra costs to the system, rather than roll up their sleeves and do it themselves?

One very good reason is litigation.
Stitching up wounds caused by accidents is not deemed to be part of a GP's role so any GP who undertakes such work would be laying themselves open to being sued if anything went wrong eg if they missed a tendon or nerve injury

[willf]

I'm a vet. i'll stitch you all up, no problem.... just give me a knife anf fork!
Stitched a few people including my own left hand after a similar diy job!
I can't wait to actually be useful.

[nexus]

Hey Wilf, have you seen any change in the number of people owning chickens?

I've noticed in the last year there has been a massive increase in the number of people I know who have either started to keep or are thinking about chickens. I'm putting most of it down to rising food prices, but I think some is people getting an inkling of the way things are going.

The amount of illnesses that chooks can get versus the cost of taking them to a vet is an issue for many chicken keepers. We decided from the outset that we wouldn't take any of ours to the vets, but would learn how to treat whatever came up, if one got really sick and didn't respond to treatment then we'd have to put it out of it's misery.

So far we've had a limping hen, red mite and worms, all of which have been successfully treated.

WTSHTF you'll be in very high demand with your skills- both for livestock and people, Willf.

[Potemkin Villager]

WTSHTF you'll be in very high demand with your skills- both for livestock and people, Willf.

Unlike those nervous GPs because "Stitching up wounds caused by accidents is not deemed to be part of a GP's role so any GP who undertakes such work would be laying themselves open to being sued if anything went wrong eg if they missed a tendon or nerve injury".

It would be interesting to know exactly what is and what is not "deemed" to be part of a GP's role and who does this set in stone deeming?

Their union certainly seems to have things well "stitched up" as far as the brothers in this highly sheltered profession are concerned. Compared to the ground other working groups have had to conceed the medical profession still seems a bastion of restrictive practices and complacent privilidge.