Human Evolution - is it the endgame?

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 17 Nov 2010, 22:02

It depends on the situation, if your living in a desert with very harsh competition for resources being genocidal and warlike I'd say was the way to be .

If your a pasturalist someone can come along and steal all your animals during the night , if your a pasturalist in a hostile environment the optimum behavior would be one where you don't put up with any slight, your clannish warlike and have a custom of honor .

You used to see that in parts of scotland and the border regions between england and scotland, parts of america that were settled by these people developed the same sort of outlook .

You could say that people from this ethnic background were near the ideal people to be early settlers on the frontier, where you didn't have many settled boundary's or very strong law and order

RogueMale · Post by **RogueMale** » 17 Nov 2010, 22:16

Kieran wrote:"Chthonic hors d'hoeurves" - mmmmm - sounds yummy.

The golden rule is pretty universal:

http://www.teachingvalues.com/goldenrule.html

Definitely predates Christianity.

The Golden Rule is not supported by game theory. The best strategy is to treat people nicely on the first encounter, then treat them the way they treat you (n.b. not the way you'd like them to treat you) on subsequent encounters.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolut ... ooperation.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 17 Nov 2010, 22:45

Any species which develops science and then chooses to ignore what that science is telling it about its own behaviour is unlikely to evolve much further IMHO.

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 17 Nov 2010, 22:51

UndercoverElephant wrote:
lurker wrote:The trouble with permaculture is that most proponents of it are to busy worshiping crystals that they wouldn't know what end of a spade to dig with. Ah i forgot they never dig the soil

Also the whole concept doesn't seem as productive or in anyway superior as a traditional organic veg garden imo

Its basically like a scientology cult of gardening. People charging extortionate prices for courses etc...
This is not the case. Permaculture is a science, not a new-age fad. It is the science of making the most efficient usage of natural resources to produce food. It is economically inefficient so long as there is a cheap source of energy.

I think permaculture would like to be a science and to be seen as scientific. However in many cases it is not that at all. There is quite a bit of wishful thinking in the whole permaculture setup, and only a little hard evidence to back up the various ideas. Perhaps the real evidence will follow - I don't know.

However there are some good ideas that can be tested within permaculture, and I certainly have used some of the techniques suggested. I struggle with the whole "become a designer" mentality of the qualification system.

Kieran · Post by **Kieran** » 17 Nov 2010, 22:53

RogueMale wrote:
Kieran wrote:"Chthonic hors d'hoeurves" - mmmmm - sounds yummy.

The golden rule is pretty universal:

http://www.teachingvalues.com/goldenrule.html

Definitely predates Christianity.
The Golden Rule is not supported by game theory. The best strategy is to treat people nicely on the first encounter, then treat them the way they treat you (n.b. not the way you'd like them to treat you) on subsequent encounters.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolut ... ooperation.

http://www.gmilburn.ca/2010/02/24/trium ... lden-rule/

The golden rule seems pretty sound to me as a way of getting along with people.

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 17 Nov 2010, 22:59

Kieran that link might say "triumph of the golden rule" but in it the winning strategy was "tit for tat" which is exactly what Roguemale described.

The best strategy is to treat people nicely on the first encounter, then treat them the way they treat you

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 17 Nov 2010, 23:02

Yes I came across that in "The Origins of Virtue".

Kieran · Post by **Kieran** » 17 Nov 2010, 23:50

Oh I see what you mean. Yes you're right.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 18 Nov 2010, 00:58

Andy Hunt wrote:Any species which develops science and then chooses to ignore what that science is telling it about its own behaviour is unlikely to evolve much further IMHO.

Our problem as a species is that we put money and the science of money, economics, above everything else. The problem with economics is that it is deeply flawed as it doesn't recognise the finite nature of our one living space, the earth.

I've always worked on the basis of "do unto others as you would be done by." But, if others put one over on me in any way I will "do to them as they did to me."

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 18 Nov 2010, 09:27

I tend to take the view that if somebody "gets one over on me", I'll get them in the long grass..... if I can be bothered

But often its just not worth the effort. If somebody has nasty aspects to them, you'll probably not change them....

My other motto has always been, "be nice to people on the way up as you'll meet them again on the way back down."

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 18 Nov 2010, 09:29

Nasty people tend to be tar babies, if you hit them you just get stuck.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 18 Nov 2010, 09:41

The best strategy is to treat people nicely on the first encounter, then treat them the way they treat you

I use a modified version: Be nice and friendly once, and then maybe twice or thrice even in the face of insults, threats etc.

However ... after a certain point of no return break their legs.

I have no hesitation in taking people to court etc if they take the Michael.

In fact I explain to this prospective business partners right up front. Some fully take the hint - some rather unwisely don't.