General Election Dec 2019 thread

What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?

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UndercoverElephant
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Post by UndercoverElephant »

acman wrote:Reading with interest the views on here but here is something I read on another forum, I got permission from the author,

It was a choice between 2 extremes; 2 nightmare scenarios and in the end, people decided that the Tories under Johnson was less of a nightmare than Labour under Corbyn. If the Labour Party and their supporters want to start winning elections again, they need to pull their heads out of the sand, leave their bubble of political correctness and denial and face up to some hard, uncomfortable truths. Their failure to keep their promise to respect the referendum result was a major factor as were their irresponsible spending plans but the underlying factor that has made them so unpopular is their obsession with multi-culturalism and diversity and their determination to swamp this country with as many immigrants as possible until it's standing room only. There's a silent majority who don't feel enriched by decades of mass immigration and don't feel it's been good for the country.
Labour need to realise that people like David Lammy and especially the odious Diane Abbott aren't assets to their party but liabilities; the prospect of her as Home Secretary was enough in itself to lose them the election. I recently read on the 'Russia Today' website about the last election in Denmark where the Social Democrats got the highest % of the votes. They're a moderate left wing party who are tough on immigration because they have the common sense and honesty to recognize the problems it brings, especially when you have a large input of new arrivals whose cultural attitudes are incompatible with those of the native population. All we hear is how enriching it has all been and how they contribute more than they take out, which most of us know is nonsense. I've felt for decades that this country has been crying out for a party like that but there's no chance of the Labour Party reforming itself as it's been totally infiltrated by parasites who want to use it as a Trojan Horse to further their own agendas, whether they be Marxism, black power or turning this country into an Islamic state. Our only hope is that the more sensible members of the party break away and form a new party on the lines of Denmark's Social Democrats so we can at last have a party worth voting for.

Regards,
I do not believe Labour's problem in that election was that it is too left wing. The problem was brexit. They now have 5 years to figure out how to get it right next time. That is going to seem like a very long time to a large number of naive and idealistic young members who've been on a rollercoaster since 2016, and perhaps need a taste of what "normal politics" is like.
Little John
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Post by Little John »

In addition to its more general cultural abandonment of its heartland voters alongside its lunatic identity politics obsessions, Labour's defeat in this GE was primarily due to its betrayal of the democratic result in the Brexit Referendum.

But, the narrative that will be relentlessly pushed in the MSM is that it was due to Labour being "too left wing". A bullshit narrative, we may rest assured, that will be enthusiastically aided and abetted by the Blairite talking heads in the PLP who will be invited onto the MSM at every opportunity to "explain" this to us all.

Labour's tack to Remain has cost them far more than this election. It has set the cause of a socialist revival in this country back terribly. This may have been our last chance of staging a successful fightback against Empire.

And Labour f***ed it up.

As usual.

Or, rather, the bourgeois and petite bourgeois educated morons in Labour comprising, variously, of wet liberals and toy town trotskyists f***ed it up.

As usual.
Last edited by Little John on Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Little John
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Post by Little John »

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/12/1 ... d-to-lose/

Why Labour deserved to lose

It has grown to loathe the people it is supposed to represent.

On the night of 23 June 2016, an early result from the north-east of England let us know that we were in for an extraordinary night, when Leave triumphed in Sunderland, way beyond expectations. So it was again last night, when Blyth Valley, an old coalmining town that has been Labour since 1950, fell to the Tories, in the first big result of last night’s historic election.

Then the other dominoes began to fall. Bishop Auckland. Wrexham. Great Grimsby. Leigh. Sedgefield. Workington. As the night went on, the ‘red wall’ continued to crumble. The Tories even took Labour Leave seats that were some way down their target list. In North West Durham – the seat previously occupied by Corbynista Laura Pidcock – the Tories came from 8,000 votes behind to claim one of the biggest scalps of the night.

But Blyth Valley felt particularly symbolic – not least because of some Labourites’ shameful treatment of the former MP for the seat, Ronnie Campbell. Campbell – an outspoken socialist and veteran of the Miners’ Strike – represented the seat from 1987 to 2019. (He stepped down before the election.) But he was also a committed Leaver. And when he was mulling over backing Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal, to uphold the will of his constituents (60 per cent of whom voted Leave), he was attacked.

Guardian columnist Zoe Williams accused Campbell, who was leading picket lines while Williams was still at private school, called him a ‘scab’. Corbynite keyboard warrior Paul Mason accused him of ‘lacking moral fibre’. Mason has long argued that working-class northern Leavers are basically a lost cause. He said at an event in May that Labour should ignore those who he caricatured as the ‘ex-miner sitting in the pub calling migrants cockroaches’.

This – in a nutshell – is why Labour was defeated last night, and defeated so badly. Its betrayal of its millions of Brexit voters, its embrace of a second referendum, proved decisive. It was strategically stupid (401 seats voted Leave in the referendum, including most Labour seats). But it was also shameful: the party that was founded to give the working class a voice set out to silence that voice. At their most charitable, Labourites saw Brexit as a cry for help from the left behind. And in place of political power – over the laws and people who govern them – all Labour offered voters at this election were handouts.
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Post by emordnilap »

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stumuz1
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Post by stumuz1 »

What a whinny article. Disagreed with all of it, a fluff piece devoid of facts.

To precis:


The girl from Newcastle who moved to New York for work and tells everyone what a terrible place the USA is....... Whilst choosing to remain working and living in the USA.
Snail
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Post by Snail »

I've become rather isolated in the last couple of years. And I piss on social media. So I admit I'm not fully with it.

But these hysterics, I feel, don't do anybody any good. My dad came from a tough place, as I suppose many older labour voters did also. They are not hapless, terrified, quivering wimps.

Britain isn't America. Boris might F--k up brexit, but that's probably all. Immigrants neednt worry. Neither does the NHS. Etc etc.

Labour Blair was hardly a saint when it came to the NHS, eu companies eye it also.

Brexit played the greatest role, but also don't underestimate how irritating many of the labour 'extras' were to ordinary voters. I'm thinking excessive pcness, the hyping of fear, momentum boaks singing Jeremy Corbyn, etc.

---

Just an irritated response to the above article :)

Edit: I'm not the only one !! :D
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Lord Beria3
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

What does the polling data say about the whole Brexit versus Jezza debate on what went wrong.

https://twitter.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=t ... r%5Eauthor

Well, the data indicuates that Jezza was a big factor, along with Brexit, on why Labour lost the election.

I will explain my thinking further soon but I think the failure started on that night when May lost her majority.

If Corbyn and the wider Labour party had taken a different attitude to that failure to unseat the worst Tory leader/campaign in a generation we could be looking at a Labour majority government now.
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Little John
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Post by Little John »

Corbyn has always been weak and and this was always a minus in terms of support. As was Labour's more general cosmopolitanism and lunatic obsession with PC identity politics. But, these were already factored in long ago prior to Labour's tack to Remain and, prior to that point, Labour were in with an excellent chance of getting into N10. The fact that the MSM is reporting the people were not that keen on Corbyn is irrelevant.

It was their Brexit (non) policy that did for them.
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

Up to a certain extent you are right LJ.

However, those issues (Corbyn's baggage which I would add his association with the IRA and Islamist anti-Semitic fanatics like Hamas etc) were not neutralised after 2017.

May was a dreadful leader but still 43% of the electorate voted for her in 2017. I did not vote Tory in 2017 because I thought she was a good leader, quite the opposite.

It was that I could not accept Corbyn.

Corbyn, if he was going to have any chance of defeating the Tories in the ge after 2017, would have needed to attract Tory voters.

And that would have required neutralizing the Corbyn "baggage" in the way that Boris, who kept on apologizing for offensive comments he may have made in historic articles back as a journalist, did throughout the campaign.

Labour never did, and even after this defeat, still don't, seem to get that.

It goes beyond Brexit to a wider sense that Labour don't share the natural patriotism which most decent ordinary Labour (or ex-Labour to be correct) voters have across most of the country.

Or as John Mann puts it (ex-Labour MP)...
On every single doorstep one issue came up- Corbyn- a man virtually universally distrusted and detested across the working class communities of this Nottinghamshire constituency. As I warned Corbyn repeatedly in person, in private as well as in public, they see him as a man who would never shake a bucket for Help for Heroes and therefore entirely unsuitable to be their Prime Minister.

Even in Bassetlaw anti-Semitism came up as an issue- a negative repeated across the North. With virtually no Jewish population at all (certainly countable on the fingers of two hands) this is perhaps best summed up by one railway worker who stopped me to ask "if Corbyn is doing this to the Jews, what will he do to the rest of us?�
Last edited by Lord Beria3 on Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

Ian Smart has an interesting thread covering these issues as well...

https://twitter.com/ianssmart/status/12 ... 5635858432
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

I would also add that I believe that I was one of the only (?) person on this forum who forecast a successful Tory majority - even if under-estimated the eventual margin of victory.

Many here were forecasting a small Tory majority or even a hung parliament.

After my June 2017 failure I feel I have restored my forecasting credibility.
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Post by Vitriol »

Lord Beria3 wrote:I would also add that I believe that I was one of the only (?) person on this forum who forecast a successful Tory majority - even if under-estimated the eventual margin of victory.

Many here were forecasting a small Tory majority or even a hung parliament.

After my June 2017 failure I feel I have restored my forecasting credibility.
- Scotland?
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Lord Beria3
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

Screwup up Scotland but overall my forecast of a comfortable Tory majority was correct.

I repeat, did anybody else predict this large Tory majority?
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Post by UndercoverElephant »

Lord Beria3 wrote:Screwup up Scotland but overall my forecast of a comfortable Tory majority was correct.

I repeat, did anybody else predict this large Tory majority?
Not on this board. But plenty of us said it was an extremely difficult election to predict.

It must be noted it is not a normal tory majority though. A large number of those votes will already have flipped back to Labour. They voted tory for one reason only - even Johnson has acknowledged that. If he treats it like a normal tory majority, it will vanish in 2024.
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Post by UndercoverElephant »

Lord Beria3 wrote:
Labour never did, and even after this defeat, still don't, seem to get that.
That is because Corbyn doesn't need to apologise for being anti-semitic, because he isn't, and doesn't need to apologise for talking to the IRA, because that's how you end wars.

Sounds like you wanted Corbyn to apologise for not stopping beating his wife.
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