EU membership referendum debate thread

What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?

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Little John
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Post by Little John »

johnhemming2 wrote:I am not bothered whether people are paid for speeches or not. Avoiding problems (if that is the case) he himself has caused raises other issues.
Varufakis personally caused the Greek insolvency crisis?

Oh do please F--k off
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Post by johnhemming2 »

He caused the capital controls to be introduced in Greece whilst he was Minister of Finance. Had the previous government's policies been maintained there would not have been capital controls nor would the cuts have been as severe.
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Post by biffvernon »

AutomaticEarth
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Post by AutomaticEarth »

If migrants get made redundant from a job in the UK, cant they just clam bennies in their own country? Seems really basic IMHO...
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Post by johnhemming2 »

The big issue is in work benefits. That is why it is worth someone coming to the UK to sell The Big Issue or collect otherwise useless quantities of scrap metal.
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Lord Beria3
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

Right, does anybody know the following questions?

1) Assuming Cameron doesn't get his way on cutting benefits for EU citizens will he lead a 'out' campaign in the EU referendum?

2) Assuming that (a) he fails to get any real concessions and (b) he will still campaign to stay within the EU, how the hell does he think he can win!! Surely by his own argument he has affectively lost and handed the Brexit camp their victory?
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
Little John
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Post by Little John »

Lord Beria3 wrote:Right, does anybody know the following questions?

1) Assuming Cameron doesn't get his way on cutting benefits for EU citizens will he lead a 'out' campaign in the EU referendum?

2) Assuming that (a) he fails to get any real concessions and (b) he will still campaign to stay within the EU, how the hell does he think he can win!! Surely by his own argument he has affectively lost and handed the Brexit camp their victory?
1) No. Not that I agree with cutting benefits for new migrants. I most certainly don't. I just happen to think we should limit the number of migrants. Though this would, of course, limit the benefit bill by implication

2) That's a problem for Cameron and anyone else wishing to persuade the public to vote for staying. But not for me. Since I will be voting out.
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UndercoverElephant
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Post by UndercoverElephant »

So...is everybody watching? :-)

Are Thunderbirds Go????

At this point in the proceedings, I'd bet on a Brexit. I wonder if Cameron is going to cajole the Europeans into letting him pull a rabbit out of the hat...
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Post by snow hope »

UndercoverElephant wrote:So...is everybody watching? :-)

Are Thunderbirds Go????

At this point in the proceedings, I'd bet on a Brexit. I wonder if Cameron is going to cajole the Europeans into letting him pull a rabbit out of the hat...
Of course the rabbit will be pulled out of the hat and Cameron will get to say voila! I think and hope we will still vote to leave the EU. I used to be a supporter but you have to change your views based on the facts.....
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

I think all the baloney about benefits for migrants will be a give away so that he, and the City, can get what they want for the City. They don't give a damn about the benefits because when the minimum wage turns into a living wage they won't be paying much in benefits. The living wage will pull in tens of thousands extra migrants because it will be so much more than they can earn in Eastern Europe: after all they're coming here for the minimum wage already!

For me it's all about the paymasters in the City.
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fuzzy
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Post by fuzzy »

johnhemming2 wrote:The big issue is in work benefits. That is why it is worth someone coming to the UK to sell The Big Issue or collect otherwise useless quantities of scrap metal.
It's also about the UK old age pension which starts after 10 years NI. Worth a few bob in a country with low living costs, because of a low pop density like Poland, held lower by the poles over here. So you will soon be paying taxes for poles to retire back home. That's got to help the pension fiscal crisis.
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Post by fuzzy »

Lord Beria3 wrote:Right, does anybody know the following questions?

1) Assuming Cameron doesn't get his way on cutting benefits for EU citizens will he lead a 'out' campaign in the EU referendum?

2) Assuming that (a) he fails to get any real concessions and (b) he will still campaign to stay within the EU, how the hell does he think he can win!! Surely by his own argument he has affectively lost and handed the Brexit camp their victory?
Because he will just say that it was a success, and the media will confirm it.
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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

fuzzy wrote: It's also about the UK old age pension which starts after 10 years NI. Worth a few bob in a ...
But UK state pensions (and other entitlements) are amongst the lowest in the EU!
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Post by fuzzy »

biffvernon wrote:
fuzzy wrote: It's also about the UK old age pension which starts after 10 years NI. Worth a few bob in a ...
But UK state pensions (and other entitlements) are amongst the lowest in the EU!
Well your evidence doesn't convince Ivana the pole who told me that a week ago.
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UndercoverElephant
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Post by UndercoverElephant »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-35609968
David Cameron's hopes of getting a reform deal on Friday look in doubt as haggling continues at the EU summit.

European leaders have reportedly been told to book hotels as talks on a final text, planned for breakfast, slipped back first to lunch, and now to dinner.

Several EU nations are digging their heels in over plans to curb migrant benefits and change EU regulations.

The prime minster had planned to return to the UK to fire the starting gun on an EU referendum campaign on Friday.
If these EU nations actually want the UK to remain in the EU, they must back down on this stuff. If Cameron doesn't get what he wants, he is guaranteed to lose the referendum. It's that simple.

I rather suspect that the EU leaders in question have underestimated the level of hostility there is towards the EU in the UK, and particularly the level of opposition to unfettered intra-EU immigration. Cameron surely must be telling them this, but they may be interpreting it as brinkmanship when in reality his hands are tied by public opinion in the UK.
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