EU membership referendum debate thread

What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?

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kenneal - lagger
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

raspberry-blower wrote:AEP: Eurozone crosses Rubicon as Portugal's anti-Euro left banned from power
Ambrose Evans-Pritchard wrote:Greece’s Syriza movement, Europe’s first radical-Left government in Europe since the Second World War, was crushed into submission for daring to confront eurozone ideology. Now the Portuguese Left is running into a variant of the same meat-grinder.

Europe’s socialists face a dilemma. They are at last waking up to the unpleasant truth that monetary union is an authoritarian Right-wing enterprise that has slipped its democratic leash, yet if they act on this insight in any way they risk being prevented from taking power.

Brussels really has created a monster.
This is a very dangerous precedent.

The time for being able to reform the EU from within has passed.
It has become an autocratic nightmare
I've been saying for ages that the EU is a Fascist organisation and this helps prove it. If you all want to belong to such a Fascist organisation you will get the chance to vote for it shortly.
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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

So you didn't read the Varoufakis interview either, Ken?
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Post by johnhemming2 »

Few people will read it. I will confirm that I have not read it. Tell us what is so insightful (beyond the advantages of getting speakers' fees sent to Oman).

All of my earnings are subject to the UK tax regime.
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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 09276.html
Greece’s former finance minister is in the process of setting up a pan-European movement to reform the EU’s institutions, he has revealed.

Yanis Varoufakis said his experience in Eurogroup meetings had left him with the conclusion that the EU was not democratic.
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Post by johnhemming2 »

What's new. The processes of the EU have not been properly democratic ever.

The Eurozone needs to operate in a different way to those countries not in the eurozone, but proper accountability is needed more generally. However it works, however, one country cannot simply declare UDI if part of the Eurozone.

Those who claimed he was some sort of genius need to think a little further.
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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

I knew you wouldn't get it! But that was the quick version in the Indy for those who couldn't be bothered to actually read the real version.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europ ... ratise-eur
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

Interesting to note that for every 1 paid speech YV gives, he gives at least 12 unpaid ones. This has been his standard practice in order to live and maintain independence for many years. Also, fees are usually reasonable.

Of course, detractors would never acknowledge this but snidely will focus on the few really well-paid gigs.
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Post by johnhemming2 »

I am not worried about how much he is paid. I am more concerned that if he does get money he does not hide it away from the Greek taxman.

In many ways the more he gets paid the better as Greece needs the tax revenues.
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Post by biffvernon »

I don't think he actually lives in Greece! But whatever, he's just put the following on his blog. I'll copy it all here for your sake, John, as I know how reluctant you are to follow links. And of course you will be equally transparent in your affairs as Yanis promises to be. ;)
Transparency Everywhere! My fees and the troika’s latest vilification drive
Posted on October 28, 2015 by yanisv
Since my resignation from the finance ministry, in protest at our government’s capitulation to the troika, I have been spending my time and energy to transfer the spirit of the Athens Spring to the heart of Europe – to promote the urgent need to shine the light of transparency on Europe’s decision making as a prerequisite to tackling Europe’s gargantuan democratic deficit.

In practice, this meant endless travel, and more than twenty appearances in different European cities over the space of a couple of months. As expected, the same troika-friendly media that attempted to vilify the Athens Spring during our tug-of-war with the troika also invested effort in vilifying my latest endeavours. After all, nothing upsets the powers-that-be in Brussels, Frankfurt, etc. more than the exposure of their deep contempt for democratic principles and practice.

Beginning with some Greek media outlets which have an impecable record of defamation (e.g. a grubby newspaper that ‘reported’, during my ministry, that I was conspiring with a Singaporean company to make Bitcoin Greece’s currency), a fresh campaign of vilification has begun the purpose of which is to portray my recent efforts, and travels, as part of a self-enrichment drive.

Transparency is one of the pillars of the European democracy network that I, and many others, are working towards these days, and which my travels and talks are intended to promote. For this reason, I owe a debt of gratitude to the troika-led media in the sense that, through their vilification campaign, have given me a wonderful opportunity to demonstrate in practice the principle of transparency that we want to bring to European politics.

Our campaign for Transparency Everywhere! can thus begin now, in this post. Below the reader will find, in response to the reports regarding the fees, format and travel costs of my recent and future speeches an account of where I have been, whom have I addressed, complete with fees and travel costs.

List A refers to political speeches I gave (or plan to give) since my resignation from the Greek Ministry of Finance. My fee for delivering the bulk of these speeches was the radical number ‘zero’. In three cases I received a small sum (mainly because the organisers insisted I should).

List B comprises two speeches/appearances which I delivered commercially to maintain my economic independent from vested interests and to my other activities. (Note that this ratio of about 12 to 1, unpaid to paid, appearances was also my practice as an academic prior to 2014, when I decided to throw my hat in the ring of politics).

I conclude with a message to the troika-loyal media, in Greece and at large: Your continued efforts to vilify me constitute a great gift for which I am thankful to you. They confirm the extent to which you are still threatened by the Athens Spring and that your loathing of the hope it spread around the world is undying. At the same time, your grimy efforts contribute to us, your opponents, excellent ideas on how to promote the task of Transparency Everywhere!

So, to conclude, from today and ad infinitum, let’s demand of ourselves and of others: Transparency Everywhere!

LIST A – Political Speeches, given and planned since August 2015

23 Aug. 2015 – Open air political speech at a rally in Frangy (France). Topic: “What does the Athens Spring mean for France and for Europe” – along with former French Economy Minister Arnaud Montebourg. http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/08/25/10081/

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: Yes (Economy)

4 Sept. 2015 – Day long debates and meetings concerning the prospects of the European and Greek economies, organized by OMFIF, London

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: Yes (Economy)

5 Sept. 2015 – Speech in the House of Ambrosseti, Lake Como, along with French Economy Minister Emmanuel Macron, invited by former Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/09/07/on ... mbrosetti/

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: Yes (Economy)

12 Sept. 2015 – Address at the “Festival of Humanity” (Festival de l’humanité), in Paris. Topic: “The Solution Must Be European” http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/09/10/fa ... -in-paris/

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: Yes (Economy)

13 Sept. 2015 – Back-to-back speeches with Britain’s Shadow Chancellor John MacDonnell, Brighton UK. Topic: “Austerity was never an option” http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/09/16/ba ... ald-audio/

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: Yes (Economy)

14 Sept. 2015 (morning) – Address of striking staff at London’s National Gallery http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/09/19/ad ... -sep-2015/

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: No

14 Sept. 2015 (evening) – Public address at the Emmanuel Centre, in London, UK. Topic: “Fighting for Our Future” (with Labour Party parliamentarian and Shadow Cabinet Minister Diane Abbot) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Gd3bluAHo

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: No

24 Sept. 2015 – Panelist on top BBC tv political debate’s program “Question Time” (Cambridge, UK) http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/09/24/to ... tion-time/

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: Yes (Economy)

26 Sept. 2015 – Public debate with Daniel Cohn Bedit at the Festival of Le Monde, Paris

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: Yes (Economy)

1 Oct. 2015 – Closing Speech at the 6th Moscow Biennale. Topic: “Artists Should Be Feared by the Powerful”, Moscow, Russia http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/10/04/ar ... ober-2015/

Fee: €1000, Travel expenses: Yes (Economy)

6 Oct. 2015 – Public address at the Volksbühne Theater, Berlin, Germany. Topic: An Alternative Plan for Europe”

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/10/08/wh ... ober-2015/

Fee: €500 Travel expenses: Yes (Economy)

15 Oct. 2015 – Talk at the Bon Centre, Municipality of Barcelona, invited by Mayor Ada Colau

Fee: €1700 Travel expenses: Yes (Economy)

17 Oct. 2015 – Inaugural Lecture of the Centre for Social Studies, University of Coimbra (Portugal)

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: Yes (Economy)

23 Oct. 2015 Open public address at the Central Westminster Hall, London, UK – organized by THE GUARDIAN newspaper

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: Yes (Economy)

24 Oct. 2015 Address at the Oxford Union, the University of Oxford, Oxford Union

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: No

25 Oct. 2015 – Public debate with Lord Howard, How To Academy, London

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: No

26 Oct. 2015 Address at an inter-collegiate meeting hosted by the Master of Trinity College, Cambridge

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: No

27 Oct. 2015 Public debate in Munich with German economist Professor Hans Werner Sinn

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: Yes (Economy)

3 Nov. 2015 Keynote speaker at a Summit with international banking sector representatives organised by Financial Times and hosted by the FT’s economics editor Mr Martin Wolf

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: Yes (Economy)

4 Nov. 2015 Public Lecture, University of Vienna University (co-organisation with Kreisky Forum)

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: Yes (Economy)

5 Nov. 2015 Opening event at the Kilkenomics Festival, Ireland

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: Yes (Economy)

6 Nov. 2015 Public Lecture University of Bocconi, Milano, Italy

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: No

16 Nov. 2015 Public Debate on the Future of Europe, with Professor Slavoj Zizek, Royal Festival Hall, London, UK

Fee: 0 Travel expenses: Yes (Economy)

LIST B – Commercial Speeches/Apperances, given and planned since August 2015

27 Sep. 2015 – Participation in tv program Che Tempo Che Fa, RAI 3,

Fee: €24,000 after Italian tax and social security contributions Travel expenses: Yes (First Class)

21 Oct 2015 – Presentation in the context of the Abraaj annual conference in Singapore

Fee: €28,800 after Greek tax

Travel expenses: Yes (Business Class)
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/10/28/tr ... ion-drive/
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

biffvernon wrote:But who actually read the interview?
https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europ ... ratise-eur
It presents some pretty powerful arguments about the UK/EU relationship.
Yes. The man shows his capacity to view the bigger picture yet again. If there's a valid criticism of him, it's that he believes there is a small chance of reorganising the EU. Actually, he's intelligent enough to know he can't - but nonetheless he's determined to deploy his own petard.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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Post by johnhemming2 »

biffvernon wrote:And of course you will be equally transparent in your affairs as Yanis promises to be. ;)
I did all the declarations of interest as an MP and councillor. I have not been paid for any speeches.
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Post by biffvernon »

I believe you. :)
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Post by Little John »

johnhemming2 wrote:
biffvernon wrote:And of course you will be equally transparent in your affairs as Yanis promises to be. ;)
I did all the declarations of interest as an MP and councillor. I have not been paid for any speeches.
Do you not think you or anyone else should be paid for speeches? I ask since you seem to be emphasizing that point for some reason.
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Post by emordnilap »

I think the issue is YV not wanting the income to risk being frozen in Greek banks. :lol:
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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Post by johnhemming2 »

I am not bothered whether people are paid for speeches or not. Avoiding problems (if that is the case) he himself has caused raises other issues.
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