EU membership referendum debate thread

What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?

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Little John
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Post by Little John »

clv101 wrote:
woodburner wrote:There has been a deteriorating outlook for the past several years. Why else have we had such low interest rates? Now everyone who voted remain is trying to blame the leavers. It's a world problem, not just a SE UK problem. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!
Indeed, a vote for Remain wasn't a vote for another couple decades of business and usual, it was a vote for a slightly different flavoured collapse at a slightly different time.
No it wasn't merely that, it was a vote for a difference in how we, as a nation, may respond to it, to the extent it can be responded to.

Edit to add....This is a confusing and misleading post...my mistake and apologies.

What was getting at (or, rather, failed to get at) is that a vote for remain is a vote for the staus-quo, which is untenable. Collapse is coming. However, a vote for leave doesn't change the collapse that is coming. What it does do, however, is give this nation some sovereign room for manoeuvre in terms of how we react to that collapse.
Last edited by Little John on Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
woodburner
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Post by woodburner »

Eh? I don't understand how a vote for remain was a vote for a difference ........

Surely that would be a vote for no change.
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
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clv101
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Post by clv101 »

woodburner wrote:Surely that would be a vote for no change.
Seriously? "No change" is not an option... which is kinda the point of PowerSwitch?
johnhemming2
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Post by johnhemming2 »

A vote for remain was a vote for

a) Resolving things internationally through transparent democratic procedures rather than secret negotiations.
b) having trade agreements that also took into account working conditions and the environment.
c) not screwing up the economy
d) stopping the poorer members of society from having their income cut and their food prices increased.
e) the UK retaining power in setting the trade agreement for Europe.

Inter alia.
woodburner
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Post by woodburner »

Rubbish! A vote for remain was to avoid all the doom possibilities outlined by Cameron, Osbourne et al.

In truth no one has a clue about why anybody voted what they did becaust they were fed so much sh*t by both sides.
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
johnhemming2
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Post by johnhemming2 »

woodburner wrote:Rubbish!
I can justify all of my assertions. These were all mentioned as part of the campaign. The fact is that if the UK government has less money as a result of BRexit there will be a mixture of more tax increases and cuts.
Little John
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Post by Little John »

my bad, I should have written leave, but was in a rush...

Have corrected.
snow hope
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Post by snow hope »

johnhemming2 wrote:Here is Mark Carney's speech
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publicat ... ech915.pdf

The vote to leave the EU has done economic harm. It is not as harmful as a resource depletion peak, but it will still impact on people's lives.

Even if we don't leave the EU some harm will have been done.
Hemming are you serious? Are you trying to tell everybody that you actually believe the words coming out of their mouths? :?

Before the vote that plonker Osborne said that if we voted to Leave, Carney would have to put up the base (interest) rate. And what has Carney said yesterday - he is likely to have to cut the base rate.

Somewhat naive I think. :roll:
Real money is gold and silver
johnhemming2
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Post by johnhemming2 »

Mark Carney and George Osborne are different people.
raspberry-blower
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Post by raspberry-blower »

William Bowles: Gobsmacked and Stunned
William Bowles wrote: This is, after all, one of those extremely rare moments in our lives, when things change radically. A dislocation if you like, or revolution even, which is why I wonder whether Corbyn has the bottle or not to take a step into the unknown? 52% did, even if they didn’t know it at the time due to our devious and lying media.

Of course, there’s still no guarantee that a way won’t be found to either neutralize, reverse or rerun the Referendum, now that the awful reality of a Brexitized UK has sunk in. Awful, because that’s the way the elite want it to be and demonizing Corbyn as its cause is an essential part of it.

The issues go to the very heart of a broken economic and political system, not just our place in Europe. The next few weeks are critical.
The EU cannot be reformed in its current state.
Whilst "Brexit" in itself isn't the be all and end all, it is the catalyst for other countries, disenchanted with the EU and the way it is being currently managed, to seek their own referendums on the matter.

Al this while the MSM tries to rewrite history and ignore the fact this started out as a gamble by the soon to be ex Prime Minister, David Cameron
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools - Douglas Adams.
johnhemming2
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Post by johnhemming2 »

It is interesting that The Sun by this definition is not in the MSM. Nor is the Sunday Times.

The thesis that somewhere there is a coordinating conspiracy that plots every step in government is obvious nonsense.
woodburner
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Post by woodburner »

johnhemming2 wrote:Mark Carney and George Osborne are different people.
No flies on this guy :wink:
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
woodburner
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Post by woodburner »

Bowles has got it wrong, as so many others have, 37.5% took a step into the unknown, not 52%.
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
raspberry-blower
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Post by raspberry-blower »

Ellen Brown: Brexit and the Derivatives time bomb
Ellen Brown wrote: But Brexit changes everything, says Summers. Until now, the EU has been able to reject debt forgiveness as an alternative, using the threat of financial Armageddon if the debtor country left the EU. But Britain has left, and Armageddon hasn’t hit. Other Eurozone nations can now threaten to do the same if they don’t get debt forgiveness or a restructuring.
A very key point here. Now that the UK has voted Leave, other EU countries will now try different negotiating tactics regarding debt relief. The key referendum will be that of Italy
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools - Douglas Adams.
raspberry-blower
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Post by raspberry-blower »

johnhemming2 wrote:It is interesting that The Sun by this definition is not in the MSM. Nor is the Sunday Times.

.
You are spouting your usual drivel again, John.
The main problem here, though is not the attacks from Murdoch's empire but from The Guardian and Independent - two papers that have likely to have far more clout with Labour supporters in swaying their opinions.
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools - Douglas Adams.
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