TTIP including TTP, CETA & TiSA

What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?

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AutomaticEarth
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Post by AutomaticEarth »

Quite interesting this morning to see David Buik on the BBC putting the boot into TTIP saying 'it's a rubbish deal and mainly benefits the US, not the EU'....

I think this is the first time I've heard anyone properly mention TTIP on the MSM, let alone slag it off..... :D
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

It definitely benefits certain people in the EU and you can guess which. There are very few employers who don't want America's comparatively non-existent labour, environment and health laws.

One of the big attractions for comparable people in America (so I'm told) is that our banking laws are weaker.

This so-called 'agreement' is lowest-common-denominator stuff.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

A quarter of a million people in Germany demonstrated against TTIP a few days ago and there's plenty of opposition in France amongst both people and government. It seems to be England that is populated by sheeple.
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careful_eugene
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Post by careful_eugene »

biffvernon wrote:A quarter of a million people in Germany demonstrated against TTIP a few days ago and there's plenty of opposition in France amongst both people and government. It seems to be England that is populated by sheeple.
I think the problem isn't so much that the UK is populated by sheeple but rather that there is no MSM discussion and most people simply don't know about it.
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snow hope
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Post by snow hope »

johnhemming2 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:If a company makes a pesticide that is discovered to have previously unknown long-term consequences, like causing cancer or killing bees, then governments have to be free to ban its use regardless of the harm it might do to the profits of the company that makes it.
I agree with you about this which is why I don't think we should agree to anything that makes it easier than it is at the moment for investors to take legal action against the government.

It is, however, the case that we already have property rights (against the government) and I would not wish to get rid of those that we have.
I am glad to hear that you are against TTIP then Hemming.
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Post by johnhemming2 »

I cannot say whether I oppose it or support it without knowing precisely what is in it. I am opposed to giving any more property rights than we have at the moment and also to the ISDS mechanism (which is not in the draft proposals).
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Post by AutomaticEarth »

kenneal - lagger
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

Supporters of TTIP say it could boost the European and US economies by hundreds of billions of dollars by making it easier for companies on either side of the Atlantic to trade with one another.
This is either dishonesty or stupidity. How can the fact that trade is easier make hundreds of billions of dollars difference to the amount of trade. Why would we want to suddenly buy all that extra stuff just because it is easier to buy? Where would all that money come from?

Or do they mean that the US would benefit by hundreds of billions of dollars of extra trade because of all the glyphosate that they spray on their crops, because of all the hormones that they pump into the beef making those things cheaper to produce than in the EU. They would be able to sell stuff into the EU cheaper because of the lax labour and environmental laws so you can see who is going to massively profit and the expense of the EU and its citizens.

The evil Bayers and Syngentas of the EU will also profit because they will be able to sell their toxic products because the EU won't be able to enforce any food safety of environmental regulations. The big, non taxpaying multinationals will be the ones to profit at the expense of us mugs again and again.
Last edited by kenneal - lagger on Mon May 02, 2016 3:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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johnhemming2
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Post by johnhemming2 »

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... 9I2_footer

I provide the above for information only.
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Post by biffvernon »

AutomaticEarth
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Post by AutomaticEarth »

biffvernon wrote:Read it all:

http://ttip-leaks.org/
Thanks for this. 16 docs to read. Must admit, I was a bit slow on picking up on the details of TTIP, but I've now turned my attention to this.
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

biffvernon wrote:Read it all:

http://ttip-leaks.org/
Heard about this on the national radio station. My were they cautious! And quite tame over the implications of TTIP itself. I was wondering why a national broadcaster largely funded by the taxpayer would broadcast so little and that leaning towards the agreement. Then I remembered - it's part-funded by advertising.

Fair play to Greenpeace for this 'leak' - which is not what it should be called.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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Post by fuzzy »

In danger of being lost down the newsroll:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-0 ... ate-change
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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

TTIP, Panama, global warming, Syria, nah, forget it, hold the front page, an MP who nobody had hear of shared a link on facebook before she became an MP that contained a joke written by a Jew.
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Post by woodburner »

biffvernon wrote:TTIP, Panama, global warming, Syria, nah, forget it, hold the front page, an MP who nobody had hear of shared a link on facebook before she became an MP that contained a joke written by a Jew.

:shock: Call for Corbyn (or a mod) have this poster suspended :arrow:
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
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