PowerSwitch

I realise this is technically off-topic, and a little out of date (I only just found it, from May this year). Before this thread gets shoved off into the void, I suggest those who insist on believing in the cuddliness of the Powers That Be give this article a read:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 88618.html

Here's a great excerpt from Newsnight broadcast in late 2007.

It refers to a report which was produced by the Policy Exchange and which made the front pages of all the major newspapers. The Policy Exchange had sought to prove that many mosques and the muslims who visited them were turning to extremist propaganda. Newsnight, while investigating the report for themselves, discovered that much of the evidence used in the report had been fabricated.

Here's the link

Bozzio wrote:Here's a great excerpt from Newsnight broadcast in late 2007.

It refers to a report which was produced by the Policy Exchange and which made the front pages of all the major newspapers. The Policy Exchange had sought to prove that many mosques and the muslims who visited them were turning to extremist propaganda. Newsnight, while investigating the report for themselves, discovered that much of the evidence used in the report had been fabricated.

Here's the link

Fascinating. And did Policy Exchance ever sue the BBC for libel, as they threatened? I assume not!

Funilly enough there was a programme about the history of the security services on Radio 4 yesterday and the point was made that they never used blackmail as a tool for recruitment because it didn't work. It did not produce reliable and loyal informants so one would never know the value or truth of any information gained.

(Of course, I never believe anything.)

biffvernon wrote:Funilly enough there was a programme about the history of the security services on Radio 4 yesterday and the point was made that they never used blackmail as a tool for recruitment because it didn't work. It did not produce reliable and loyal informants so one would never know the value or truth of any information gained.

(Of course, I never believe anything.)

So who do you think was blackmailing these Muslim community leaders? Are you suggesting they were making it up? It's possible I suppose, but I tend to think there's no smoke without fire, in most cases.

Ludwig wrote:

biffvernon wrote:Funilly enough there was a programme about the history of the security services on Radio 4 yesterday and the point was made that they never used blackmail as a tool for recruitment because it didn't work. It did not produce reliable and loyal informants so one would never know the value or truth of any information gained.

(Of course, I never believe anything.)

So who do you think was blackmailing these Muslim community leaders? Are you suggesting they were making it up? It's possible I suppose, but I tend to think there's no smoke without fire, in most cases.

I heard some of that programme when it was on the week before. One interesting point came from someone who claimed it was hard to know much about MI5 since it would say one thing yet, because it is a secret organization, was probably doing something different. For that reason, the programme seemed a bit pointless to me.

biffvernon wrote:Funilly enough there was a programme about the history of the security services on Radio 4 yesterday and the point was made that they never used blackmail as a tool for recruitment because it didn't work. It did not produce reliable and loyal informants so one would never know the value or truth of any information gained.

(Of course, I never believe anything.)

cant argue with the logic of that argument, trouble is, they also say a similar thing about the use of torture - which we know they've at least been superficially involved in.
They also have for a long time claimed they dont use murder as a tool for change - but anyone thats read spycatcher will know , at the least, about the attempt to gas Nasser, and also, the botched attempt to kill gaddafi.
I guess getting someone else to murder someone for you means to them that they dont engage in murder !

incidentally, they used blackmail to control informants in northern ireland for years. - But i guess it depends which "branch" of the security services we're talking about.

If you want to study the eithics of our security services, google up some information on the Kincora boys home.

Wikipedia wrote: Allegations later emerged that the Royal Ulster Constabulary had been informed of the abuse at the home for years previously, but had not moved to prevent it because the manager of the home, William McGrath, was also the leader of an obscure loyalist paramilitary group, called Tara, and was being blackmailed by MI5 into providing intelligence on other loyalist groups.