TEQs and imported goods

For discussion of Tradeable Energy Quotas (TEQs). See http://www.teqs.net for more.

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emordnilap
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TEQs and imported goods

Post by emordnilap »

If a country unilaterally introduced TEQs or a version thereof, then theoretically a widget produced in that country would be dearer than one imported from a non-TEQ country.

Is there a short answer to that problem?
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Tarrel
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Re: TEQs and imported goods

Post by Tarrel »

emordnilap wrote:If a country unilaterally introduced TEQs or a version thereof, then theoretically a widget produced in that country would be dearer than one imported from a non-TEQ country.

Is there a short answer to that problem?
Not necessarily. Company "A" could invest in R&D and technology to reduce its energy consumption per unit of production. Having reduced its energy consumption it could sell its spare TEQs and use the money to subsidise the cost of its products, thus remaining price-competitive.

So, although Company "A" would be competing on the international stage with other manufacturers unimpeded by energy restrictions, it would actually be competing domestically with a whole range of businesses to be the most energy efficient.

The commercial advantage gained by being one of the leaders in energy efficiency domestically is recycled to allow it to be competitive in the international market for its products, offsetting the disadvantage.

Devil is in the detail. TEQs would have to be dealt out fairly, reflecting the fact that some industries are more energy intensive than others.

...I think!
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

Yes, the low-energy domestic widgets might in the end be cheaper than imported ones - though not necessarily so and, even if they do, it would take time. The transition would be painful and there'd be lots of resistance, even before TEQs are brought in. That's one of the reasons for the question. I want to counter this domestic/imported 'relative advantage' argument in simple terms.

As for your last point - one of the huge merits of TEQs in their theoretical stage is that it's fair and thus does reflect your fact. Whether one type of industry is more energy intensive than another type is (to my mind) irrelevant. No industry should get unfair treatment, whether positive or negative.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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Re: TEQs and imported goods

Post by Shaun Chamberlin »

emordnilap wrote:If a country unilaterally introduced TEQs or a version thereof, then theoretically a widget produced in that country would be dearer than one imported from a non-TEQ country.

Is there a short answer to that problem?
Hi emordnilap. Apols that I haven't read this thread carefully, as I'm off to Reclaim the Power camp in half an hour, but there's an FAQ on this here, which may answer your question?

I'll check in again when I'm back next week.

Cheers,
Shaun
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Post by Little John »

There's an even deeper and more intractable problem with TEQs or, indeed, any form of consumption reduction economic mechanism due to the way that money is created and destroyed and the absolute requirement for physical economic growth implied by money created in this way. All that TEQs do, under such a debt-based systemic imperative, is move the deckchairs around.

Or, to put it more bluntly, TEQs are a case of putting the cart before the horse.
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Post by Shaun Chamberlin »

Little John wrote:There's an even deeper and more intractable problem with TEQs or, indeed, any form of consumption reduction economic mechanism due to the way that money is created and destroyed and the absolute requirement for physical economic growth implied by money created in this way. All that TEQs do, under such a debt-based systemic imperative, is move the deckchairs around.
Totally agree with the need to address money creation. Alongside working on TEQs this is something I've written about repeatedly (e.g. here) and I was one of the early members of what has become the Positive Money campaign. We need both that and TEQs, absolutely. The implementation of either should help pave the way for the implementation of the other.
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Post by Little John »

I would argue that if the money creation problem is solved, then the reduction of consumption may be achievable by a variety of mechanisms, one of which may be TEQs. However, in the absence of the money problem being fixed, no method of consumption reduction can be made to work, including TEQs.
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emordnilap
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Re: TEQs and imported goods

Post by emordnilap »

Shaun Chamberlin wrote:
emordnilap wrote:If a country unilaterally introduced TEQs or a version thereof, then theoretically a widget produced in that country would be dearer than one imported from a non-TEQ country.

Is there a short answer to that problem?
Hi emordnilap. Apols that I haven't read this thread carefully, as I'm off to Reclaim the Power camp in half an hour, but there's an FAQ on this here, which may answer your question?

I'll check in again when I'm back next week.

Cheers,
Shaun
Thanks Shaun; that answer is sort of what I thought if import tariffs are allowable.

We're all-too-well aware though, these are unlikely in a corporatised (especially post-TTIP etc) world.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Shaun Chamberlin
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Re: TEQs and imported goods

Post by Shaun Chamberlin »

emordnilap wrote:
Shaun Chamberlin wrote:
emordnilap wrote:If a country unilaterally introduced TEQs or a version thereof, then theoretically a widget produced in that country would be dearer than one imported from a non-TEQ country.

Is there a short answer to that problem?
Hi emordnilap. Apols that I haven't read this thread carefully, as I'm off to Reclaim the Power camp in half an hour, but there's an FAQ on this here, which may answer your question?

I'll check in again when I'm back next week.

Cheers,
Shaun
Thanks Shaun; that answer is sort of what I thought if import tariffs are allowable.

We're all-too-well aware though, these are unlikely in a corporatised (especially post-TTIP etc) world.
Personally, as per that FAQ and the evidence given there, I think they're rather likely, with or without TEQs. But time will tell.
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