Airlines in trouble

SleeperService · Post by **SleeperService** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:27 am

And trouble ahead for another

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19352412

the cancellation of new aircraft is telling, Quantas has a very good reputation in the industry so if they're struggling others may be in worse condition but hiding it better.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:02 am

I recently read a story about the latest in aircraft (whatever's the current flavour), a real upbeat piece, "orders for 1,000 with deliveries starting 2015" and I thought, yeah, yeah, here we go, we'll see.

I reckon airlines and their suppliers, despite their massive subsidies, will be queuing up for more bail-outs next.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:11 pm

EU is wavering and looks likely to cave in to US/Chinese pressure to drop carbon charges on aviation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... ons-charge

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:15 pm

Increase landing charges instead.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:22 pm

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-1 ... indle.html

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:11 pm

The two manufacturers, which are presenting their biggest planes at the same venue for the first time in more than a year, remain confident they will overcome the lull, and that the success of aircraft programs is measured in decades.
“One or two or three years in which the demand for very large aircraft is not so strong does not mean you can prematurely call the end of such aircraft,” Tom Enders, chief executive officer of Airbus parent European Aeronautic, Defence & Space Co., said in an interview in Berlin.

I wonder what the oil price will be 'in decades'.

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:23 pm

biffvernon wrote:
The two manufacturers, which are presenting their biggest planes at the same venue for the first time in more than a year, remain confident they will overcome the lull, and that the success of aircraft programs is measured in decades.
“One or two or three years in which the demand for very large aircraft is not so strong does not mean you can prematurely call the end of such aircraft,” Tom Enders, chief executive officer of Airbus parent European Aeronautic, Defence & Space Co., said in an interview in Berlin.
I wonder what the oil price will be 'in decades'.

Is that related to the proposed merger of BAE and EADS?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19576907

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:19 am

A larger take up of super jumbos would decrease the pressure for more runways so the above news is not good. Although if it heralds negative growth in the airline industry it is good.

Post by **adam2** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:09 pm

More
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-19840425

Post by **adam2** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:52 am

And another
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32955818

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:00 pm

This is a special case - they have suffered two major disasters in quick succession, and they have lost the confidence of the their primary market. Neither incident appears to have been accidental.

I suspect that there are major political factors not being mentioned in the MSM in this area - Malaysia is very much China's back yard and there is a lot of racial tension in the country.

I am sure it used to be standard practice for national airlines to be technically bankrupt and to be bailed out by creative accounting in many countries for decades.

Post by **adam2** » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:17 am

Flybmi, a UK based regional airline are bust with immediate effect.
All flights ceased.

Whilst I am sorry for those left stranded and for employees thrown out of work, taking a wider view I consider this to be good news.
Air travel is highly polluting, and any decline thereof is welcome.

Among the reasons given for going bust are "high fuel costs" ! which I find interesting. Oil looks cheap to me at about $60, it has been a lot higher, and I expected at least $100 by now.

Reports stated that the airline sold tickets until an hour or so before failing, knowing that these tickets were worthless and would not be honoured.

Vortex2 · Post by **Vortex2** » Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:53 am

FWIW I suspect that the A380 cancellation could be due to its very labour intensive construction.

The wiring loom in each plane can be hand made ... thousands of metres of cabling.

This old fashioned approach leads to high costs and delays.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:18 am

adam2 wrote:
Reports stated that the airline sold tickets until an hour or so before failing, knowing that these tickets were worthless and would not be honored.

I would think that in a civilized country that would be considered fraud and those responsible prosecuted and jailed.
But what do I know?

raspberry-blower · Post by **raspberry-blower** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:40 am

adam2 wrote:
Among the reasons given for going bust are "high fuel costs" ! which I find interesting. Oil looks cheap to me at about $60, it has been a lot higher, and I expected at least $100 by now.

Reports stated that the airline sold tickets until an hour or so before failing, knowing that these tickets were worthless and would not be honoured.

Do airlines still hedge on buying aviation fuel? If so they may well have had the same outlook as you and paid over the odds for it.

Bottom line is though - unlike a fb feed I had that put the blame on Brexit ffs! - the reason for Flybmi demise is bad management and it was a weak competitor in an overcrowded market.