Erm. Ho-hum.Little John wrote:You lot are hilarious.
I simply cannot believe I am having to spell this shit out.
Discussion of the latest Peak Oil news (please also check the Website News area below)
Moderator: Peak Moderation
Yes, that's called evidence.vtsnowedin wrote:But now we have this.Little John wrote:And there we have it folks. The power of a lifetime of brainwashing.vtsnowedin wrote:Does it ever occur to you Little John that you are more then a bit paranoid?
Would the US government lie to the world (not just you) if it served some purpose for them? Yes, just like every other government out there both liberal and conservative and Capitalist and socialist. But if there is no advantage to be gained by a lie when the true facts will serve better and hold up under critical inspection why would they not go with the truth.
The moment that plane went down I expected it was an accidental shoot down by the anti aircraft forces in place around Tehran. They had the position , ability and were on a razor edge of alert. For anybody else to hit that plane at that point and position requires a lot of improbable logistics without a motive worth the effort.
Perhaps some alternate theory will win out in the end but I severely doubt it.
https://apnews.com/21f4a92a2dfbc38581719664bdf6f38eJust whose brain has been washed?TEHRAN, Iran (AP) â€” Iran on Saturday acknowledged that its armed forces â€œunintentionallyâ€� shot down the Ukrainian jetliner that crashed earlier this week, killing all 176 aboard, after the government had repeatedly denied Western accusations that it was responsible.
Most were actually Iranian.UndercoverElephant wrote:Most of the passengers were Canadian.stumuz1 wrote:Why kill your own citizens to hit back at the western world in general?UndercoverElephant wrote:accidentally or intentionally as a way of hitting back at the western world in general.
Not a good period for Iran. Wonder whether they will be tempted into more retaliatory actions now, to try and distract their domestic unrest.
https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/iran ... d1f94a260c
Iran, And Other Notes From The Edge Of The Narrative Matrix
The greatest asset of the propagandists is your belief that you havenâ€™t been propagandized.
"Hi my nameâ€™s Maga McBootlick. I fight the establishment by cheerleading for the US President, I oppose war by supporting the same Middle East agendas as Dick Cheney, John Bolton and Bill Kristol, and I love the Iranian people so much I want to kill them with starvation sanctions."
I canâ€™t believe Iâ€™ve spent a week and a half arguing with Republicans who insist that assassinating a nationâ€™s top general is perfectly sane and normal and fine. No, idiots. No.
Trump supporters keep telling me how upset they are that Iâ€™m dedicating so much time and energy to criticizing his Iran warmongering. The mental irritation you experience when I criticize your president is called cognitive dissonance. Itâ€™s what being wrong feels like.
Note to the US government: you donâ€™t get to murder civilians with starvation sanctions and then have anyone believe you when you tell them you stand with them. Not a thing.
When you target civilians with sanctions with the stated goal of making them so miserable and hungry that they rise up against their government, and then openly urge them to rise up against their government, you are trying to start a civil war. That is the thing you are doing. People should really think hard about exactly what that means.
The US Secretary of State has openly admitted that Iran is being sanctioned not so that its government will change its behavior, but so that the Iranian people will force their government out. This cannot happen without coordinated violence against Tehran, i.e. civil war.
Weâ€™ve known for years that the CIA has been ramping up covert operations within Iran. Concerns that the CIA is working to foment violence and disorder in Tehran are not idle speculation. It is most definitely happening. Only question is how and to what extent.
Anyone whoâ€™s ever escaped from a relationship with a sociopath can see these â€œWe stand with the people of Nation X in rising up against their governmentâ€� scripts for the imperialist manipulations they are. Itâ€™s amazing how many of the people with deep understandings of manipulation are survivors of this type of abuse.
After Iran admitted that it downed the Ukrainian plane there were a bunch of establishment narrative managers running around online going â€œHa! See?? This proves itâ€™s wrong to doubt us on these things!â€� Doesnâ€™t work that way, sugar tits. The US government has an extensive history of using lies, propaganda and false flags to manufacture consent for military agendas; skepticism until thereâ€™s hard proof is the only sane position in a post-Iraq invasion world.
Always, always remain skeptical of such assertions until clear, doubtless proof is provided. Never let them shame you out of doing so. Their giant â€œSee, we didnâ€™t lie this time!â€� social media parade actually proves the rule.
All the justifications youâ€™ve heard for Trumpâ€™s Iran warmongering have been premised upon the assumption that it is entirely right and appropriate for the United States to have a military presence on the other side of the planet in nations that donâ€™t want them to be there.
When I say the US governmentâ€™s claims justifying Soleimaniâ€™s assassination are unproven, I always get people telling me thatâ€™s because the evidence is classified. Secret, invisible, hypothetical evidence is not evidence, guys. Not as far as public scrutiny is concerned. Iâ€™ve explained this to Russiagaters as well.
If a known compulsive liar who has deceived you many times in the past told you it was very, very important that you go and murder your neighbor, but he couldnâ€™t show you the evidence proving his claim, would you take him at his word and get your gun? No? Then donâ€™t trust the US government when it tells you something happened requiring military action.
Anyone who says a war with Iran could be easily won is either (A) making claims on a subject they know nothing about, or (B) advocating the use of nuclear weapons. Either way theyâ€™re not someone you should trust with your car keys.
Maybe the dumbest thing in all US politics is the way liberals tend to cheer for regime change in Syria while conservatives tend to support regime change in Iran. In reality itâ€™s the same agenda: theyâ€™re just arguing over which government to oust first. Amazing propaganda trick.
Whenever Iâ€™m writing against US regime change in Syria itâ€™s a guarantee Iâ€™ll spend the day arguing with liberals. Whenever Iâ€™m writing against US regime change in Iran itâ€™s guaranteed Iâ€™ll spend it arguing with conservatives. Always. Every single time.
When the US was preparing to announce its withdrawal from the JCPOA in May 2018 I tweeted, â€œMake a note of which Trump supporters who were dutiful skeptics about Russiagate and Syria turn into worthless foam-brained sheep about Iran.â€� Canâ€™t say the results have been especially surprising. Party loyalism is dementia.
When analysts accurately predict US military aggression will unite disparate factions against the US, itâ€™s not some kind of psychic magic trick. Theyâ€™re using the same common sense which says that if you act like an asshole at the pub, everyone in the pub will think youâ€™re an asshole.
Those who advance war propaganda are participating in that war just as much as the people who actually go and fight in it. Theyâ€™re just playing a much safer and more cowardly role.
Trump supporters acting like heâ€™s been vindicated for assassinating Soleimani because it hasnâ€™t started a full-scale war are like an abusive husband telling his wife â€œSee? It was fine! Bet you feel stupid for yelling now!â€� after downing a 12 pack and taking the kids on the freeway in the back of the pickup truck.
USA: Want to stop being a sovereign nation?
Iraq: No. Get the F--k out.
USA: [invades, kills a million Iraqis, kills Saddam, tears apart Baâ€™ath party, tears apart Iraqâ€™s military, installs puppet regime, declares Iraq and USA â€œpartnersâ€�] How about now?
Iraq: No. Get the F--k out.
Assassinating a nationâ€™s top general after arbitrarily designating him a â€œterroristâ€� is just assassinating a nationâ€™s top general with a thin layer of narrative overlay. Yet such is the power of narrative that Trumpites have been regurgitating this exact justification like itâ€™s a real thing.
Every single time Trump does something evil I get drooling QAnon cultists telling me to calm down and trust the plan. Every single time, without a single, solitary exception. And his actions get more and more depraved. This is what a propaganda construct looks like.
No analyst can name an appropriately comparable US general whose assassination would enrage the public like Soleimaniâ€™s did in Iran. This is because hardly any living American can remember a time when their military could be said to have rescued them from an existential threat.
Whenever I criticize the US president his supporters come up babbling about how Hillary would have been worse. So? Believing Trump is good because Hillary Clinton is bad is like believing cancer is good because heart disease is bad.
Americaâ€™s two-party sock puppet show is always fake. Always. Buying into any part of it supports the whole fake show. â€œBut the red puppet acts different from the blue puppet!â€� Yes. Thatâ€™s how puppet shows work. Characters act different. Cheering for either is endorsing the lie.
You can absolutely make the case that one of the puppets acts less reprehensibly than the other during the show. But the show always ends the same: everyone in the audience gets a punch in the mouth and has to give all their money to the military.
The only real â€œwelfare queenâ€� thatâ€™s ever existed is the US military. Not even Reaganâ€™s most dementia-addled fantasies ever dreamed up a welfare moocher this minted.
MSM can create false narratives without even speaking them explicitly, just by giving a certain impression. After the Iraq invasion 70% of Americans still believed Saddam was responsible for 9/11, just because reporters and politicians kept mentioning the two in the same breath.
Schrodingerâ€™s superpower: America is simultaneously (A) an unstoppable military and economic force that ought to be in charge of the entire world, and (B) the poor widdle victim of a big, mean bully on the other side of the planet.
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I am amazed that I am the first, twenty four hours after the event, to post anything about the admission by the Iranian government that it was them, or rather one of their Revolutionary Guards, who shot the plane down. Or was that just BBC propaganda or lies?
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
I am amazed nobody has asked who pulled the trigger and why? This does not seem to have been a simple point and fire job letting off a heat seeker. I have seen some talk about the plane being mistaken for a cruise missile, which seems most unlikely, unless you believe the rumours swilling around that the launch system had been hacked.kenneal - lagger wrote:I am amazed that I am the first, twenty four hours after the event, to post anything about the admission by the Iranian government that it was them, or rather one of their Revolutionary Guards, who shot the plane down. Or was that just BBC propaganda or lies?
Conspiracy nutters don't want the facts to muddy the waters. So stop immediately!kenneal - lagger wrote:I am amazed that I am the first, twenty four hours after the event, to post anything about the admission by the Iranian government that it was them, or rather one of their Revolutionary Guards, who shot the plane down. Or was that just BBC propaganda or lies?
Oh some colonel who thought he was punching his ticket for a promotion to General. Just who makes no difference as he is on his way to the chopping block. The why is probably no more then fear of failure if he let the first US incoming strike go unchallenged or intercepted.Potemkin Villager wrote: I am amazed nobody has asked who pulled the trigger and why? .
Not following you Fuzzy. The plane looked like a plane. Do you think the US made it look like a cruise missile? The surface to air missiles worked just as intended so no hacking there.fuzzy wrote:Or the guided missile was knobbled or plane spoofed.
How do you mistake something 100 ft wide by 120 ft. long for something 2 feet in diameter by 20 ft. long. (air speeds for both are around 500mph)
Yes of course. Usually radar or heat seeking or a combination of both. But the radar and heat signals from a 140,000 lb aircraft with the engines churning out enough heat for it to climb would be 30 times the signal from a cruise missile.fuzzy wrote:All surface to air missiles are guided by something
If you think the USA fooled the Iranians into knocking down that plane say so and then tell us why the USA would want to do that and how.