Oil and Population

Mr. Fox · Post by **Mr. Fox** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:59 pm

stevecook172001 wrote:
Mr. Fox wrote:Isn't being the 'greenest driver' rather like being the 'cuddliest rapist'?
Yes because being a "greener" driver simply diminishes the damage, but does not stop it.

No, because a rapist has a choice whereas, for all practical purposes, an average person wishing to function in any meaningful way in a modern Western industrial society, insofar as driving is concerned, has little choice.

Bollocks. We all have a choice. It might not be convenient to stop driving, but it can be done. If your lifestyle demands that you drive, change your lifestyle.

It sometimes amuses me watching the mental gymnastics people engage in to justify their own participation in the ongoing destruction of the planet.

I also love the way all these calculations omit all the 'externalities'. It might 'cost' you only 29p to drive a mile, but it costs some poor f*cker on a low-lying coral atoll their whole country, maybe their life.

Drive if you feel you must, but STFU about how 'green' you are whilst doing it. The rank hypocrisy makes me want to puke all over my keyboard.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:11 pm

Our car returns about 70 mpg (diesel) so fuel costs are just over half.
Tax is zero.
Insurance is cheap £250
Other costs average. Depreciation about £1500 a year.
Tires, servicing, MOT, maybe £500 year
Fuel £ 900

31p / mile

Mr. Fox · Post by **Mr. Fox** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:11 pm

Hang on...

frank_begbie · Post by **frank_begbie** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:21 pm

The Luddite's were right.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:23 pm

Mr. Fox wrote:
stevecook172001 wrote:
Mr. Fox wrote:Isn't being the 'greenest driver' rather like being the 'cuddliest rapist'?
Yes because being a "greener" driver simply diminishes the damage, but does not stop it.

No, because a rapist has a choice whereas, for all practical purposes, an average person wishing to function in any meaningful way in a modern Western industrial society, insofar as driving is concerned, has little choice.
Bollocks. We all have a choice. It might not be convenient to stop driving, but it can be done. If your lifestyle demands that you drive, change your lifestyle.

It sometimes amuses me watching the mental gymnastics people engage in to justify their own participation in the ongoing destruction of the planet.

I also love the way all these calculations omit all the 'externalities'. It might 'cost' you only 29p to drive a mile, but it costs some poor f*cker on a low-lying coral atoll their whole country, maybe their life.

Drive if you feel you must, but STFU about how 'green' you are whilst doing it. The rank hypocrisy makes me want to puke all over my keyboard.

Shut the F--k up yourself you f***ing pompous arsehole. I am well aware of the damage my very existence, alongside the 7 odd billion other people, is doing to this planet.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:27 pm

frank_begbie wrote:The Luddite's were right.

Yes, they were.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:29 pm

vtsnowedin wrote: Not bad at todays prices. Best rig I ever owned costwise was a 2WD chevy pickup I bought new in 1993. I drove it 270,00 miles for a final all cost considered price of 11 cents US$ per mile but gas was only $1.20/ gallon back then.

That's good going V

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:32 pm

Of course I will cycling home on my electric bike at a fuel cost of about

£0.001 /mile.

Battery is good for 1,000 recharges and cost £350. It needs recharging
every 40 miles.

£0.01 /mile

Bike will need new tires, chain, lights, saddle, and handle grips at intervals.
Say, £50 /year for 2000 miles /year
£0.025 / mile
The bike overall will probably last 20 years (solid German engineering, aluminum frame) and cost £1700
£0.0425 / mile

I probably need at least 1 extra pair of trousers each year
to cover wear and tear.

£0.02 / mile
Total cost of about

9p a mile. It adds up...

Little John · Post by **Little John** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:33 pm

PS_RalphW wrote:Our car returns about 70 mpg (diesel) so fuel costs are just over half.
Tax is zero.
Insurance is cheap £250
Other costs average. Depreciation about £1500 a year.
Tires, servicing, MOT, maybe £500 year
Fuel £ 900

31p / mile

Not bad going Ralph. Though, I would be interested to know what the expected lifespan of these vehicles is as that would feed into the total carbon footprint/time when petrol consumption, production and recycling are all summed

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:04 pm

I don't drive but I admit that I'd find it impossible to function in most jobs or locales other than what I do and where I live. In fact it could be argued that, since I don't have a job, in some ways I'm not fully functioning at all.

Mr. Fox · Post by **Mr. Fox** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:03 pm

stevecook172001 wrote:Shut the **** up yourself you ******* pompous arsehole.

From you, Jeremy, I'll take that as a compliment.

Being aware of the damage you're doing and actually taking steps to stop doing it are two completely different things.

Sure, giving up driving can be a massive pain at first, as can any big change. But it can also help you 'function' in as much a 'meaningful way' as driving ever could, if not more so.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Mr. Fox wrote:
stevecook172001 wrote:Shut the **** up yourself you ******* pompous arsehole.
From you, Jeremy, I'll take that as a compliment.

Being aware of the damage you're doing and actually taking steps to stop doing it are two completely different things.

Sure, giving up driving can be a massive pain at first, as can any big change. But it can also help you 'function' in as much a 'meaningful way' as driving ever could, if not more so.

What a pathetic little person you are. If you were so upset about my criticism of Greer, you could just have been honest enough to have come out and said it instead of this drivel.

Mean Mr Mustard · Post by **Mean Mr Mustard** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:58 pm

PS_RalphW wrote:Of course I will cycling home on my electric bike at a fuel cost of about

£0.001 /mile.

Battery is good for 1,000 recharges and cost £350. It needs recharging
every 40 miles.

£0.01 /mile

Bike will need new tires, chain, lights, saddle, and handle grips at intervals.
Say, £50 /year for 2000 miles /year
£0.025 / mile
The bike overall will probably last 20 years (solid German engineering, aluminum frame) and cost £1700
£0.0425 / mile

I probably need at least 1 extra pair of trousers each year
to cover wear and tear.

£0.02 / mile
Total cost of about

9p a mile. It adds up...

You forgot the extra mars bars, Ralph...

Little John · Post by **Little John** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:16 pm

RenewableCandy wrote:I don't drive but I admit that I'd find it impossible to function in most jobs or locales other than what I do and where I live. In fact it could be argued that, since I don't have a job, in some ways I'm not fully functioning at all.

It is difficult Candy. I am a supply teacher. I do supply because I found full time teaching too stressful after a decade of being HoD. Trouble is, schools are pulling in their horns and using in-situ teachers' free periods far more often these days instead of calling in supply teachers. This means I now have to travel a lot further to keep working.

Mr. Fox · Post by **Mr. Fox** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:08 pm

stevecook172001 wrote:What a pathetic little person you are. If you were so upset about my criticism of Greer, you could just have been honest enough to have come out and said it instead of this drivel.

I reckon it's all the driving that's making you such an angry little bunny, Jezza.

I care not a fig what Greer thinks about social structures, and even less about what you think about what he thinks, tbh. Neither have much bearing on the subject of diminishing returns on increased social complexity/intermediation.

Did you read Tainter? (<-- that's a video link, so you don't have to.

)