I imagine you didnt watch the link I just posted but all your liberal movements in islam have done what exactly, when I was in saudi as a child they still had human slavery thats was in the 1970s, the main reason islamic majority countrys changed is they got whomped on the field of battle, your liberal movements did next to nothing .AndySir wrote:It seems you are incapable of following the most basic of threads, UE, as well as incapable of reading links. My comments on the Kenyan genocide were directed at Catweasel. Despite your claim, you are obviously not familiar with the history as that happened in the 1950s - not in our great-great-grandfathers generation (I'd hope) but in ours or at least our parents.
It seems that both you and SC agree that the Enlightenment, and the separation of church and state are good things. I would suggest then that the problem you have is with Theocracy or totalitarianism and not Islam.
Here is a brief except of different approaches to one of the more controversial pillars of Islam: Jihad, which in itself only occurs in the seven pillars of Ismailism.
Here is a brief wiki article on liberal Islamic movements.Jihad "Struggle": The definition of jihad is controversial as it has two meanings: "the Greater Struggle" and the "The Lesser Struggle", the latter of which means a confrontation with the enemies of the faith. The Nizari are pacifist and interpret "adversaries" of the faith as personal and social vices (i.e. wrath, intolerance, etc.) and those individuals who harm the peace of the faith and avoid provocation and use force only as a final resort only in self-defense. The Druze have a long history of military and political engagement, but refer to this pillar solely as Rīda "Contentment" – the war to fight that which removes you from the ease of the Divine Presence, a meaning similar to that of the Nizari. In addition, the 'Uqqāl "Wise Ones", the religious cadre of the Druze, are pacifists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_mo ... thin_Islam
Islam is set up in such a way to not reform, from a islamic point of view islam is perfect , if you see reform normally it works in a way to push the religion more towards the fundi side .
Jihad as spoken of in the koran and haddith you need to have warhorses and weapons thats not a spiritual struggle thats killing people, I used to work on the top athiest website critical of islam run by former muslims, and Ive seen debates between jihadi muslims and your limp liberal muslims and in everyone the fundis have won .
In the real world not on the internet those liberal muslims in majority muslim countrys especially wouldnt even try to have that sort of debate because of the very real danger they would be killed for shirk .
The film I posted had clips of every western leader saying what a great peaceful religion islam is, they know about as much about it as you do