Spain Watch, and Catalan independance

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Cabrone
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Post by Cabrone »

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Cabrone wrote: The EU and their half baked ideas have a lot to answer for.
Agreed. I sat on the fence regarding the EU and the single currency for a very long time, but history has proved that much of what the euroskeptics said was true, even if their motivation wasn't always pure as the driven snow. I would now vote for the UK to leave the EU completely if I was given the choice in a referendum.
Me too.

Like you I was on the fence for a long time (albeit with a dose of skepticism towards the Euro and how it worked) but now I just think they are incompetent, undemocratic and corrupt.

Just a few things....
- How they let Greece in after Goldman's had cooked the books was incompetent\criminal.
- How they thought that a single interest rate would work without strict lending controls on the banks was incompetent.
- How they think that free movement of people around the EU will have no impact on local working populations is naieve at best. The working class in the UK have been hammered.
- When a country's people (Ireland) reject their proposals they just ask them to vote again till they get it 'right' - that's when a country's population even get the chance to vote atall. Democracy when it suits them.
- The real power brokers (Barroso, Van Rumpy Pumpy etc) are unelected and paid huge salaries.

The banks were culpable, no arguments from me but ground zero of this car crash was the formation of the EZ and 'one size fits all' economic doctrine.

The EU needs to be rethought from the bottom up + become more like a proper state OR it needs to break up.

Either way, I want out.
The most complete exposition of a social myth comes when the myth itself is waning (Robert M MacIver 1947)
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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

Funny how many people have criticised Gordon Brown and yet it was he who was primarily against joining the Euro when Blair would have had us in.
Just sayin', like.
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Lord Beria3
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Eco ... 5Dj04.html

Interesting article argueing that Germany should cut Spain loose.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
Aurora
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Post by Aurora »

BBC News - 06/06/12

They are playing defence in Madrid. And the moves are familiar. They have been played before in Ireland, Portugal and Greece.

The denials become ever more insistent that a bail-out is not needed. "The men in black will not be coming to Spain," said a senior minister yesterday.

Yet the cracks are showing.

There was the admission by Spain's budget minister that the country has all but been shut out of the credit markets, making it difficult to finance its needs.

Article continues ...
I thought the following comment just about summed up the current situation:
Whilst we are all squabbling about whether it's private sector or public sector workers who are getting the biggest pension, salary etc. the REAL crime is happening right under our noses.

Taxpayers (both public and private) are being fleeced to pay for the financial black hole the elite have created through their incompetence and greed.

They bet it all on red - and it came up black.
Tarrel
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Post by Tarrel »

They bet it all on red - and it came up black
..Or, "they bet it all on black, and ended up in the red". :)
Aurora
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Post by Aurora »

Tarrel wrote:
They bet it all on red - and it came up black
..Or, "they bet it all on black, and ended up in the red". :)
Either way, it's heads you lose, tails you lose.

But hey, what have we all got to be unhappy about? :wink:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18334003
Aurora
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Post by Aurora »

BBC News - 07/06/12

Spain will try to raise money on credit markets on Thursday days after it said it was all but blocked from them.

The planned move - a test of market confidence in its ability to pay - comes amid reports Spain has been seeking a bailout from eurozone funds.

Article continues ...
BBC News - 07/06/12

Newspaper review: Papers fear Spanish banks fallout

Article continues ...
Aurora
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Post by Aurora »

BBC News - 07/06/12

There was strong demand for Spanish bonds at an auction on Thursday, which was seen as a key test of the country's ability to raise funds, but it had to pay a higher interest rate.

The rate on the 10-year bonds was 6.044%, up from the 5.743% paid when bonds were last sold in April.

Spain sold 2.1bn euros ($2.6bn; £1.7bn) in medium and long-term bonds.

It comes as European authorities are said to be working on a way to help Spain's troubled banking sector.

Article continues ...
rightee
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Post by rightee »

Another look at the bond sale not from the bbc...
Spain Sells The Smallest Amount Of 10 Year Bonds Since 2004 At A Yield Over 6%
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/spain-sel ... eld-over-6

Spain sold the bare minimum of the longer-bond just to keep up with appearances: an amount likely recycled by its broke banks, which scrambled to get the last remaining LTRO cash and to show just how strong the demand for the country's debt is. In fact as Nicholas Spiro of Spiro Sovereign said, "If it wasn't for its banks' continued support at auctions,
Spain would be unable to sell its debt. Right now confidence in Spain is
at an all-time low." Either way, the good news is that according to Spain it has now covered 58% of its borrowing needs for 2012. the bad news: 42% remains uncovered. Especially in the aftermath of an EU announcement that not only has it not received an aid request from Spain, but that there is no EU rescue plan for Spanish banks. Europe has now completely lost the script and is making up day by day.
Aurora
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Post by Aurora »

BBC News - 07/06/12

Spain's credit rating has been downgraded as estimates on the size of the bailout it needs begin to mount up.

Fitch cut its rating on Spanish government debt by three notches to "BBB", a sign it thinks Spain's ability to honour its debts has weakened.

Article continues ...
Aurora
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Post by Aurora »

The Guardian - 08/06/12

Spain to seek financial bailout on Saturday

Article continues ...
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UndercoverElephant
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Post by UndercoverElephant »

Aurora wrote:
The Guardian - 08/06/12

Spain to seek financial bailout on Saturday

Article continues ...
Another crack opens up in the global financial system...
Aurora
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Post by Aurora »

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Aurora wrote:
The Guardian - 08/06/12

Spain to seek financial bailout on Saturday

Article continues ...
Another crack opens up in the global financial system...
Agreed, although the Spanish authorities seem to be vehemently denying the rumours this afternoon.
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Lord Beria3
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

http://baselinescenario.com/2012/05/28/ ... more-10166

Grim article on how the Euro will collapse.

The derivatives picture is terrifying - we are taking about over a 100 trillion!
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

You only get big numbers like 100 trillion if you count the same thing several times.
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