Spain Watch, and Catalan independance

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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

This appeared in a comments section:
I often got sense that Catalans’ desire for independence was as much about not wanting to be part of Spain as wanting to be their own country. There’s a sneering antipathy throughout Spain for Catalunya – and everyone’s aware of it. Even left-leaning liberal Spaniards I know, who go with every right-on cause going, change their demeanour when Catalunya is mentioned. There’s footage doing the rounds of crowds cheering the Guardia Civil as they headed off from their Andalucian bases last week for Catalunya – with chants urging the police to give the Catalans the beating they deserve [https://youtu.be/pZJFvy-_L0c]. In my personal experience, this is representative of how the rest of Spain feels. It makes sense in every way except for economics to let them go.
[My bold]
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
AutomaticEarth
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Post by AutomaticEarth »

Al Jazeera had a report just now saying that at least 100 cars in a town called Verges in Catalonia had all their tyres slashed. It' being blamed on 'far-right activists' but the locals are not so sure......
raspberry-blower
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Post by raspberry-blower »

Resilience: What happened when Degrowth was discussed at the Catalan Parliament
However the debate about de-growth, so crucial at this moment in time, has been completely overlooked in the midst of this informative whirlwind which has been occasioned by the tense and chaotic approval of the Catalan laws about its referendum and separation. So as we were saying, daily conflicts prevent us from seeing and understanding the processes we are following, to the point where we are incapable of recognizing collapse.
Where we are at..
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools - Douglas Adams.
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

raspberry-blower wrote:Resilience: What happened when Degrowth was discussed at the Catalan Parliament
However the debate about de-growth, so crucial at this moment in time, has been completely overlooked in the midst of this informative whirlwind which has been occasioned by the tense and chaotic approval of the Catalan laws about its referendum and separation. So as we were saying, daily conflicts prevent us from seeing and understanding the processes we are following, to the point where we are incapable of recognizing collapse.
Where we are at..
Great article, thanks r-b.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
oobers
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Post by oobers »

emordnilap wrote:
raspberry-blower wrote:Resilience: What happened when Degrowth was discussed at the Catalan Parliament
However the debate about de-growth, so crucial at this moment in time, has been completely overlooked in the midst of this informative whirlwind which has been occasioned by the tense and chaotic approval of the Catalan laws about its referendum and separation. So as we were saying, daily conflicts prevent us from seeing and understanding the processes we are following, to the point where we are incapable of recognizing collapse.
Where we are at..
Great article, thanks r-b.
In the video of the debate linked in the footnotes - https://www.parlament.cat/web/canal-par ... p3=8105387 - one side of the chamber empties before Saladié opens his speech. I'm guessing it's the side that needs to hear it!

This is the frustrating conversation most of us have had several times over with someone in the pub, only somewhere more formal.
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adam2
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Post by adam2 »

Catalan parliament declares independence.
Meanwhile the Spanish government are talking about imposing direct rule.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41780116
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UndercoverElephant
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Post by UndercoverElephant »

adam2 wrote:Catalan parliament declares independence.
Meanwhile the Spanish government are talking about imposing direct rule.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41780116
They claim they have imposed direct rule. This looks like the biggest political crisis in Europe since the formation of the EU.
johnhemming2
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Post by johnhemming2 »

It depends in the end on who pays the bills. If Madrid holds the purse strings they will be able to control the situation.
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clv101
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Post by clv101 »

UndercoverElephant wrote:
adam2 wrote:Catalan parliament declares independence.
Meanwhile the Spanish government are talking about imposing direct rule.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41780116
They claim they have imposed direct rule. This looks like the biggest political crisis in Europe since the formation of the EU.
...and may distract Brussels from Brexit, which may or may not be a good thing!
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PS_RalphW
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Post by PS_RalphW »

It is hard to see what independence means in a modern state. No armed forces, no international recognition, no border controls, it really boils down to domestic law making and taxation. If the banks refuse to cooperate then it is just sound and fury
johnhemming2
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Post by johnhemming2 »

Indeed you are right. The banks will follow the accepted rule of law. Even if the catalan independence movement had majority support for the actions it was taking it would be difficult to create a financial structure that funds any substantial activity. The only hope for the Catalan independents is that Madrid goes around using too much force.
Little John
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Post by Little John »

In case anyone here hasn't worked it out yet, the future is very likely to be a re-run of the past. Only less fun.
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Post by Little John »

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Lord Beria3
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

So proud of the Catalonians!

Well done! ;)
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
raspberry-blower
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Post by raspberry-blower »

Ian Allison: Catalonia looks to Estonia's e-residency and considers cryptocurrency option
An article in Spain's main daily newspaper El Pais reports that digital transformation experts working for the Government of Catalonia, the Generalitat de Catalunya, have visited Estonia several times to gather tips on how to implement an e-residency programme.

Dani Marco, director of SmartCatalonia, who appears to be heading up the initiative, pointed out that the Estonians "started from scratch, with all the possibilities they were offered to build a model of economic development."
This is something to keep an eye on. If the Catalans want genuine independence this is a blueprint that could challenge the fundamentals of the EU itself. So I suspect that Rajoy will be given the green light by the EU to try and suppress this
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools - Douglas Adams.
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