Spain Watch, and Catalan independance

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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

What, you mean like not getting a well paid job, having to pay taxes and buying loads of stuff? That should trouble them seriously.
Tarrel
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Post by Tarrel »

biffvernon wrote:What, you mean like not getting a well paid job, having to pay taxes and buying loads of stuff? That should trouble them seriously.
Exactly. I mean, just what IS the "benefit in kind" of swapping a bootful of firewood for a couple of haunches of venison? :wink:
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Post by JavaScriptDonkey »

Hospitals.
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

RenewableCandy wrote:I'm going to put something in print now that I've been wondering about for a year or so...why exactly are street demos regarded as a threat?
Most street demos these days call into action a body of heavily-armed militia who are kitted out to present an intimidating and a highly threatening stance right from the start. They're also usually the first to spark the violence. The days of a bobby getting his helmet knocked off or having banter with the protesters are gone.

Police should protect and serve - everyone equally.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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UndercoverElephant
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Post by UndercoverElephant »

Paul Mason documentary (1 hour) on Spanish situation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldu8X_UQ ... r_embedded
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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

Interesting to see what happens when a lot of people can't pay their mortgages:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22701384
In the wake of Spain's property crash, hundreds of thousands of homes have been repossessed. While one regional government says it will seize repossessed properties from the banks, a little town is doing away with mortgages altogether.
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RenewableCandy
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Post by RenewableCandy »

Reverse land grabs :)
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kenneal - lagger
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

biffvernon wrote:Interesting to see what happens when a lot of people can't pay their mortgages:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22701384
In the wake of Spain's property crash, hundreds of thousands of homes have been repossessed. While one regional government says it will seize repossessed properties from the banks, a little town is doing away with mortgages altogether.
UE won't like it at all but that is what has to happen when you have large scale unemployment. It would be even more important in the UK to guarantee somewhere to live with our colder climate and wetter climate. No house would mean death for most people because they have no survival skills at all. A government couldn't allow that and expect to keep the peace.

Mind you, I don't know why they are building new houses when they are millions of unsold houses in Spain. Not in the right place I suppose. Ireland should not have any homeless at the moment with their large surplus of unoccupied housing estates. Perhaps the UK government should rent a few and send some of the long term unemployed there until the economy perks up. It would save a fortune in housing benefit.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

kenneal - lagger wrote:Ireland should not have any homeless at the moment with their large surplus of unoccupied housing estates.
The problem with the estates is that they are unfinished, with no money to finish them, as much cash as possible is being handed to private foreign banks. Plus no-one wants the responsibility for the estates, least of all the government.
kenneal - lagger wrote:Perhaps the UK government should rent a few and send some of the long term unemployed there until the economy perks up. It would save a fortune in housing benefit.
Yeah, send 'em over. That would be a larf.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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adam2
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Post by adam2 »

Large scale rally or protest underway in Madrid in support of a relatively new left wing political party.
Calls for debt default.

Report here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31072139
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

adam2 wrote:Large scale rally or protest underway in Madrid in support of a relatively new left wing political party.
Calls for debt default.

Report here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31072139
BBC bias kicks off with:
radical Spanish leftists Podemos
They're not that radical. In fact, I wouldn't call egalitarian aims radical in the slightest. But of course the narrative has been hijacked: the beeb goes on to describe other parties as 'traditional'!
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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adam2
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Post by adam2 »

This wont help stability !
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41331152
Many in the Catalan region seek independence from the rest of Spain. A referendum on this has been ruled illegal by the national government, but it seems likely to go ahead anyway.
If Catalonia DOES become independent, then that is a good excuse for a debt default. "we would like to repay our debts, but we can not, the other lot have taken our money"
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

adam2 wrote:This wont help stability !
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41331152
Many in the Catalan region seek independence from the rest of Spain. A referendum on this has been ruled illegal by the national government, but it seems likely to go ahead anyway.
If Catalonia DOES become independent, then that is a good excuse for a debt default. "we would like to repay our debts, but we can not, the other lot have taken our money"
Let 'em be independent. Spain doesn't want to let such a lucrative piece of real estate go of course.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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adam2
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Post by adam2 »

Not looking good at all, considerable violence on both sides as police try to close polling stations.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41460037

Some of the more excitable pro independence side are saying "peaceful action has achieved nothing. We need guns"
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
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