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Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:57 am
by BritDownUnder
raspberry-blower wrote:Here's another one teetering:

Beeb: British Steel on the verge of administration
I would prefer this one to be 'bailed out' (or nationalised) by the government as steel is something of a national security issue. I once had shares in it but I have no idea what happened to them - takeover maybe.
Otherwise if the UK had to import steel products they would have to rely upon high quality and well documented Chinese steel imports that may or may not continue depending on the level of Theresa May's kowtowing skills.

Sir Keith Joseph once had a famous quote about being confronted by an unemployed steel worker. I will have to look it up.

China has a bone to pick with the UK (and a lot of other places too) for historical reasons and they can hurt the UK economy a bit more than in the 19th Century when they threatened to bring the UK to its knees by halting rhubarb exports.

Interesting to see Jamie's restaurant chain going bust. Never been there myself. Marco Pierre White would no doubt have something witty to say about it.

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 11:53 am
by PS_RalphW
British Steel in administration.

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 11:53 am
by fuzzy
The arc melting engineering steels part of BS was split off a while ago, however that is also foreign owned, so who knows the future?

BS remaining is blast furnace based and therefore hit more by coal and gas taxes than 'Liberty steel' etc who use mainly electric and gas.

They both face massive hurdles against coastal based foreign works with cheap coal and ore.

For strange reasons this is called a mini-mill in steelmaking jargon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H342kRXX3HA

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:17 pm
by Little John
2 miles from me is the Skinningrove branch of British steel that specializes in making caterpillar tracks. If that goes, it will be virtually the final industrial level employer to leave this area. Over 300 hundred local men are employed there and the small towns of Skinningrove, Carlinhow and Loftus (where I live) will have the shit kicked out of them when they are already, economically, on their knees.

So, the first question is why is British steel needing this money? The answer is that the EU is applying charges on them until Brexit is resolved. In other words, the EU is using British Steel as a lever in negotiations.

The second question is why is the government unable to either give the extra money to British Steel or, even, step in and nationalise it? The answer is that EU rules preclude such actions.

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:39 pm
by careful_eugene
A few years ago the EU took steps to impose tariffs on cheap Chinese steel in order to protect steel manufacture throughout the EU. This was blocked by our Tory government, undoubtedly this has had an effect on the demise of British Steel.

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:52 pm
by Little John
Of course the EU doesn't mind globalist neo-liberal national policies. It's just socialist ones and/or ones in national interests they they have a problem with.

The final question, then, is at what point are Left Remainers going to stop denying that membership of the EU poses any problems for the implementation of a Leftist manifesto in this country?

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:57 pm
by kenneal - lagger
Little John wrote:.........The final question, then, is at what point are Left Remainers going to stop denying that membership of the EU poses any problems for the implementation of a Leftist manifesto in this country?
That's one of the things that they are going to reform, Steve. Didn't you know that??? ;-)

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 5:22 pm
by adam2
BritDownUnder wrote:
I would prefer this one to be 'bailed out' (or nationalised) by the government as steel is something of a national security issue. I once had shares in it but I have no idea what happened to them - takeover maybe.
Otherwise if the UK had to import steel products they would have to rely upon high quality and well documented Chinese steel imports that may or may not continue depending on the level of Theresa May's kowtowing skills.

Sir Keith Joseph once had a famous quote about being confronted by an unemployed steel worker. I will have to look it up.

China has a bone to pick with the UK (and a lot of other places too) for historical reasons and they can hurt the UK economy a bit more than in the 19th Century when they threatened to bring the UK to its knees by halting rhubarb exports.

Interesting to see Jamie's restaurant chain going bust. Never been there myself. Marco Pierre White would no doubt have something witty to say about it.
I agree that the steel works should be bailed out or otherwise assisted to survive.
In most cases I believe in letting failing businesses fail. Steel and some other industries are an exception as they are of strategic national importance.
We should not be increasing our reliance on imports of crucial materials.

As regards the restaurant chain, they are of no national importance whatsoever. The failure is very sad for employees and for suppliers owed money, but is not of any wider significance.
Steel is a vital industrial material and

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 5:52 pm
by careful_eugene
Little John wrote:Of course the EU doesn't mind globalist neo-liberal national policies. It's just socialist ones and/or ones in national interests they they have a problem with.

The final question, then, is at what point are Left Remainers going to stop denying that membership of the EU poses any problems for the implementation of a Leftist manifesto in this country?
The Tories vetoed what the EU wanted to do with Chinese steel imports. Had they not done this, British Steel wouldn't be in the situation it's currently in. The Arch-bellend Farage voted against reforming EU trade defence rules which were designed to tackle the dumping of steel in 2014.

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:03 pm
by Little John
You do know how the EU parliament works..right? The MEP's have no right to propose, amend or repeal EU laws.

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:25 pm
by fuzzy
adam2 wrote: I agree that the steel works should be bailed out or otherwise assisted to survive.
In most cases I believe in letting failing businesses fail. Steel and some other industries are an exception as they are of strategic national importance.
We should not be increasing our reliance on imports of crucial materials.

As regards the restaurant chain, they are of no national importance whatsoever. The failure is very sad for employees and for suppliers owed money, but is not of any wider significance.
Steel is a vital industrial material and
The main argument I see with steel is that they should be treated like farmers. The banks will tell you that 'credit' is necessary because farmers cannot predict the annual weather and therefore need 'credit' to give them disaster planning options. The same is true of steel which is at the vagaries of politics. At the cutting edge of steel - N furnace in Rotherham is 80 MW peak of electricity - maybe 40MW average [a guess] continuously. The rest of Aldwarke lane in the video [rolling mills, re-heating, cranes, offices, etc] is maybe 10 times that [a guess]. It needs supergrid connections [275kV] from 3 directions to not tip the country over. Anyone got any ideas??

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:35 pm
by cubes
Little John wrote:You do know how the EU parliament works..right? The MEP's have no right to propose, amend or repeal EU laws.
But they can reject them when asked to vote on them.

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:45 pm
by Little John
The European Parliament may "approve" or "reject" a legislative proposal, or propose amendments to it. The Council, however, is not legally obliged to take account of Parliament's opinion

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:39 am
by raspberry-blower
raspberry-blower wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:Former Carillion CEO Joins Kier.

Could this be the beginning of the end of Kier? Is this the executive class looking after its own? Does the leader of a company which went bust so spectacularly have any credibility? Or are the execs of Kier hoping for a massive payout before this firm goes bust too? Is it time to sell any shares in Kier?
Kier required an emergency loan of £500 million not that long ago, Ken - looks like the last rites to me.
Bit rhetorical as you have answered your own question as highlighted above
A further update - this really won't come as a surprise to Ken. Not in the slightest.

CityAM: Kier shares plummet on profit warning
A botched rights issue
Now it announces results that are £25 million below market analysts predictions.

Recently Galliford Try also announced disappointing financial results - being some £40 million below market expectations.

This is in a boom time for the construction industry.
Something rotten in the heart of HTB Land me thinks..

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:34 pm
by BritDownUnder
John Moore, senior investment manager at Brewin Dolphin, said: “Kier is in a dark place.
A company with Dolphin in their name giving investment advice? Hillarious!

I don't have shares in Kier. I suspect it is a case of a mixture of corporate looting and management incompetence.