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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:53 pm
by adam2
UndercoverElephant wrote:
Snail wrote:Not a good way to buy, but the eyeball average of gold sovereigns on eBay seems to be about £400. So, roughly about £50 per gram compared to £44 live price.
I never even thought of buying or selling gold coins via ebay.
Neither have I, do however regularly observe ebay prices as I feel that ACTUAL selling prices on ebay might be more representative of "real world" prices than some other sources.

Likewise I observe crude oil prices regularly, but not with the intention of buying any !

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:14 pm
by adam2
UndercoverElephant wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:If things are that bad a lot of people will bury some or all they own because it won't be long before the whole system collapses and there won't be any one to enforce the ban.
Yeah, I can't see any western government having much luck in enforcing such a ban. In fact, trying to ban it will set up a black market, and the real value will multiply many times over.
Just about within living memory, the USA prohibited the private ownership of gold, subject to exemptions for gold jewellery, small amounts of coins, and for gold coins whose rarity or antique value exceeded the gold content.
Privately held gold was not completely confiscated, but was required to be sold to the government for paper money, at less than the open market rate.

There was also a strict ban on the use of "gold notes" or "gold certificates" these were a once popular form of cheque or IOU, that promised the future payment of a certain weight of gold, rather than a certain number of paper dollars.
Prior to the ban, "gold notes" were popular for large transactions as they had the merits of not trusting paper money, whilst avoiding the security and logistical problems in physically transporting large amounts of gold.

"gold notes" became almost a rival currency at one point with major banks issuing them, they certainly resembled bank notes in general design.

The purpose of banning gold notes and banning the private ownership of significant amounts of gold was to preserve confidence in the US dollar.
It worked, at least to a degree.

Without the bans, it seems probable that the US dollar would have collapsed and that physical gold, and privately issued "banknotes" backed (allegedly) by gold would have taken over.

Some of the more paranoid Americans believe that a similar event might occur soon. Some companies offer for sale "confiscation proof" coins, though it is not explained exactly how the coins that they offer are immune to any future government orders.

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:57 am
by UndercoverElephant
The purpose of banning gold notes and banning the private ownership of significant amounts of gold was to preserve confidence in the US dollar. It worked, at least to a degree.

Without the bans, it seems probable that the US dollar would have collapsed and that physical gold, and privately issued "banknotes" backed (allegedly) by gold would have taken over.
This is how fiat currencies die. There's a short book (out of copyright, free to download) that explains exactly how it happened in revolutionary France: https://mises.org/library/fiat-money-inflation-france

The problem is confidence itself. Once people start doubting the future of a fiat currency, it is usually doomed. It does not matter how hard the authorities try to secure that confidence. For example, in revolutionary France a law was passed such that when any sort of transaction was about to take place, if a person asked the question "What currency will this transaction take place in?", the penalty was death by guillotine. But it still didn't work, and the reason was that the very existence of such a law erodes confidence even more. You cannot force people to have confidence in a failing fiat currency by passing laws. It's like trying to legislate against the laws of physics.

Fiat currencies always fail in the end, and the thing that always kills them off is the existence of gold and silver bullion, whether it is freely traded with the price going to the moon, or whether it is prohibited. This time really is different, but only because we have a global system of fiat currencies floating electronically against each other.


Currently at an all time high of £1555/$2040.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53660052
Gold has topped $2,000 (£1,527) an ounce for the first time as traders look for havens amid the pandemic.

Investors have moved cash into the precious metal as Covid-19 cases rise in the US and more money is pumped into the global economy.

The record high gold price has also been driven by concerns over tensions between Washington and Beijing.
My prediction is that the price of gold is eventually going to go much higher, and at some point there will have to some sort of major restructuring of the whole system. If so, that moment will surely be a critical turning point in the process of global collapse - it will be the beginning of the end of globalisation as we know it.

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:58 pm
by kenneal - lagger
Silver is on its way up as well at £20/oz against a fifty year high of £29 in early 2011. The previous high before that was £127.43 in February 1980. The 50 year graph and any others can be seen here.

I'm now in profit on my gold and silver purchases although they weren't bought as an investment. I was thinking of buying some more silver earlier on in the pandemic and didn't so I will wait a bit before I buy any more that is if I do buy any more. As you have probably noticed I'm not decisive enough to make a living dealing in bullion!!

Gold is on it way down a little at £1548 over today's high of £1562.99. The days price graph can be seen here.

Re: Current Gold Price

Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:27 pm
by kenneal - lagger
The following is advise on gold from a silver billionaire in Southbank Investment Daily -
Thomas Kaplan has a warning for gold investors.

The billionaire founder of Apex Silver Mines sat down for an interview with Kitco last Friday, in which he said of the gold industry:

“I look at the gold industry itself, and I see something that is very, very challenged,” he said.

“What I see within this industry is something where you don’t have new discoveries, where the majors are burning through reserves faster than they can replace them. We’re seeing that with Newmont, we’re seeing that with Barrick, we’re seeing that with just about everybody.”

“The truth is, if you make a discovery today, it’s probably going to take you 20 years to take it to the point where it’s producing something.”

With gold miners struggling to produce as central bankers chip away at paper money’s value and industrial use climbs, Kaplan sees a perfect storm for gold ahead
On that basis it would seem that if you have any gold you should hang onto it for now.

Re: Current Gold Price

Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:40 pm
by adam2
IMHO, ANY private holding of gold should be held onto for now.
The precious metal is in my view a preperation for an uncertain future, and should therefore be held until paper money becomes untrustworthy.

Attempting to buy gold when it is cheap and re sell when it is expensive sounds attractive, but in the long run you are unlikely to beat the market.
Consider gold as a prep and not as an investment.

BTW, this reminds me of a story from pre war Germany when paper money inflated to near worthlessness. Someone had a vast supply of smaller banknotes and decided to take them to a bank to change for larger notes.
The low value notes filled a large wicker laundry hamper, this they left outside the bank whilst making enquiries, considering theft to be unlikely.
When they emerged from the bank, someone had stolen the laundry hamper, tipping the near worthless banknotes out on the road.

Re: Current Gold Price

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:12 pm
by UndercoverElephant
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55882758
GameStop investor battle moves on to silver as prices surge
Oh yes. :-)

Re: Current Gold Price

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:58 pm
by adam2
What could possibly go wrong !

Re: Current Gold Price

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:03 pm
by kenneal - lagger
I think that these people are being manipulated by a few others who are making a lot of money out of the naivete of many. Just as the hedge funds profit from shorting, there are many others who profit from the increasing price. It's a form of insider trading; you buy up loads of shares in a cheap company and then persuade a load of "activists" to give the hedge funds a bloody nose and buy up the shares so that you can profit when the price rockets. Same with silver!!

Re: Current Gold Price

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:58 pm
by UndercoverElephant
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/unpre ... er-weekend
Update (1345ET): The shortage of physical silver is exposing a tear in the precious metals market unlike any we have seen before.

As we detailed below, various executives from bullion dealers have explained that huge demand has left them with no supply (and no source) for physical silver.
Kaboom!

Re: Current Gold Price

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:16 pm
by kenneal - lagger
Now if they wanted to do some real damage they could expose the same problem of a lack of physical resource in the gold market.

Re: Current Gold Price

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:18 pm
by UndercoverElephant
kenneal - lagger wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:16 pm Now if they wanted to do some real damage they could expose the same problem of a lack of physical resource in the gold market.
Yes. This is testing the water.

Re: Current Gold Price

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:37 pm
by UndercoverElephant
Just uploaded to youtbued

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg3XOqit09Y
What Does A Silver Panic Look Like? | Veteran Gold & Silver Dealer Recounts Past Buying Frenzies

Re: Current Gold Price

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:26 am
by BritDownUnder
kenneal - lagger wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:16 pm Now if they wanted to do some real damage they could expose the same problem of a lack of physical resource in the gold market.
Next thing people will be printing on bits of paper "I promise to pay the bearer on demand" so that people can always go to the bank and get their gold, safely tucked away in the bank when they want it.

Now that would really be a silly idea. Wait - isn't that what banknotes are?

Re: Current Gold Price

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:26 pm
by kenneal - lagger
BritDownUnder wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:26 am .............. isn't that what banknotes are?
Were!!