French protests over fuel prices etc.

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BritDownUnder
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Post by BritDownUnder »

I have active cruise control in my family car so I go along at the speed of the person in front subject to an upper limit which is settable. It is very handy. I usually stay in the inside lane and don't speed as I rarely ever need to rush. As an additional benefit you seem to ride in the slipstream and save a bit more money.

Going back to what those silly people are doing in France I am confused as to what political orientation the protesters are. The car burning brigade seems to be present but I thought they were lefties. however the clv article seems to imply they are all right wing nutters. There is obviously a bandwagon and people have joined it. Their delusion in thinking that the price of a finite resource will remain constant is pitiful. I think those protesters that resort to violence or obstruction should be all arrested, an IQ test performed and those that are over a certain level should be made to study Economics 101 and read the French equivalent of David MacKay's SEWTHA. Those under the intelligence level should be made to prepare a garden and grow their own food for a year.
G'Day cobber!
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

BritDownUnder wrote:The car burning brigade seems to be present but I thought they were lefties. however the clv article seems to imply they are all right wing nutters.
It's never really been 'left-wing' protest but both left and right want it to be 'their' protest. It's ordinary people bearing the brunt of austerity and capitalism.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Little John
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Post by Little John »

The dividing line is between localists versus globalists. The left and right are to be found on both sides of that dividing line.

It is lack of understanding of the above and the consequent tendency to persist in defining everything in terms of a primary division of Left versus Right that is causing so much confusion for so many. Once the above is understood, however, everything else starts to make a lot more sense.
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adam2
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Post by adam2 »

Reports state that the French government "fear major violence" in the coming days, despite the fuel tax increase being in postponed.

The protests seem to represent dissatisfaction in general, with the price of fuel being only the catalyst.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46466268
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
kenneal - lagger
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

BDU, Economics 101 is not worth the paper it's printed on. It is written by people who believe that continuous economic growth in a finite environment in not only possible but desirable! One of its primary equations is - output is the product of labour and capital. That hasn't been true since the start of the industrial revolution when fossil fuel power became the major contributor. A recent study found that the equation is now out by a factor of 87% but Economics 101 hasn't accepted that yet. There have been demonstrations by economics students at meetings of senior Economists to complain about the rubbish that they have to learn.

To get a better idea of how economics should be try Energy and the Wealth of Nations by Hall and Klittgaard, Why Are We Waiting by Lord Nicholas Stern and Doughnut Economics by Kate Raworth. The last book is probably the easiest read.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

Certainly Macron is making the classic mistake of imagining ordinary people (well, any people really) will take the hit for climate change without giving them something back in return immediately. The French are not the Irish, they don't roll over so easily.

Instead, the rich got a tax cut recently, then he raises fuel tax. WTF?
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Little John
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Post by Little John »

Macrons actions look positively weird unless you consider the following:

The ruling class, in the West, know full well that the industrial civilization game is up soon for a variety of reasons too obviously thrashed to death on here to need to go into. So, they set up things up so to as to milk the cow dry before heading for the hills.

This would include things like social polices that hollow out state provision and a variety of fiscal policies that transfers wealth from poor to rich including tax breaks for the rich and tax hikes on the poor for any old shit they can think of. A favorite being "saving the planet" or some other guilt-inducing justification.

Furthermore, in order to keep labour costs at optimally profitable levels, foster mass immigration to drive pay and conditions down. Meanwhile, on the international scene, anywhere anything that is not nailed down is being raped and pillaged by that same ruling class by sending in armies comprised of the poor and dispossessed of the West on the ticket of bringing "freedom and democracy" to our dark skinned brethren.

Finally, to keep the masses from waking up to the horror of what is being done to them and promptly hanging the ruling class from lamp-posts, they are kept busy with "pussy-hat" and "me-too" "movements", trans toilet facilities, "rape-culture" and the "patriarchy". The mass of people are so f***ing stupid, after all, that by the time enough of them realize what's going on, the ruling class will be long gone onto new pastures. Leaving what remains of the management class in the form of third-rate politicians to decorate the lamp-posts on their behalf.

Don't mind me... Just thinking out loud....
vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

John that is quite a rant but of course you enjoy ranting.
In your post you say the rich are doing things before heading for the hills at the top and heading off to green pastures near the end. Just where are these hills and green pastures that will be safe havens for the rich and I presume their domestic staff and security guards after the "game is up" and they finish" raping and pillaging" the worlds economy?
The rich need the middle class as both workers and customers and to deliberately impoverish them would be self defeating.
fuzzy
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Post by fuzzy »

To get back to the French protests. Does anyone know much about the logistic problems, and has/will it caused any disruption in the UK?
vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

fuzzy wrote:To get back to the French protests. Does anyone know much about the logistic problems, and has/will it caused any disruption in the UK?
Well if I was a tourist planing a visit to Europe I might scratch off France from my itinerary and spend those days in the UK or calmer points in Europe. So the UK tourist industry might get a bit of a boost. Other then that I can't think of anything from France that cant be had from other places for a fair price. And before anybody goes off on the quality of French wine and champagne let me say that there isn't one in a hundred of us that can taste the difference and those connoisseurs most probably have several years supply in their private cellars.
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adam2
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Post by adam2 »

I am not aware of any significant effects in the UK, of the French riots.

One might expect spot shortages of perishable imported foods, but I have not noted any such. Wine being non perishable is most unlikely to be affected. "Plonk" may be sourced from many other countries, and fine vintage wine is sold in more modest volumes and is indeed often matured for years in the UK.

TPTB in France are clearly expecting trouble this weekend, many thousands of extra riot police will be deployed, armoured vehicles will be available, and many tourist attractions are to be closed.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

vtsnowedin wrote:John that is quite a rant but of course you enjoy ranting.
In your post you say the rich are doing things before heading for the hills at the top and heading off to green pastures near the end. Just where are these hills and green pastures that will be safe havens for the rich and I presume their domestic staff and security guards after the "game is up" and they finish" raping and pillaging" the worlds economy?
The rich need the middle class as both workers and customers and to deliberately impoverish them would be self defeating.
Quite a few of the peta-rich have bought up parts of New Zealand, for one thing.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
kenneal - lagger
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

vtsnowedin wrote:... Just where are these hills and green pastures that will be safe havens for the rich and I presume their domestic staff and security guards after the "game is up" and they finish" raping and pillaging" the worlds economy?
New Zealand apparently.
The rich need the middle class as both workers and customers and to deliberately impoverish them would be self defeating.
The rich are too stupid to realise that, so it would seem.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
kenneal - lagger
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

Just noticed that Em got in before me with New Zealand.

Great minds think alike!!
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

Shades of "On the beach" but remember the last scene.
To think that even remote New Zealand will be safe from world collapse is ridiculous. Nice vacation and retirement spot but not independent from the rest of the world.
The idea that the rich are stupidly stripping the worlds resources with a plan to cut and run away to a paradise is what is stupid.
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