Diplomatic WikiLeaks

[sam_uk]

I'm not a defeatist. I'm simply pointing out what will probably happen as a result of all this fuss.

You have not actually made any concrete predictions as far as I can tell. You made a vague statement about 'Internet is about to be turned into a corporate and/or state controlled zone' without any comment on the mechanisms that could be used to do that.

Whilst I can understand that this may be the intent, you have said nothing about the mechanisms you believe will be used to do that. My belief is that no such mechanism exists, short of turning off the root DNS system, which seems unlikely.

Carole Theriault, a senior security consultant at Sophos, a computer security firm, said: "If the big companies weren't locking down their information before, they're definitely doing it now.

Security consultant spouts guff shocker! What do you imagine she means by 'locking down'? How is that going to prevent a DDOS attack? What is your point exactly?

[contadino]

"This is really unprecedented and DODGY TAX AVOIDERS could be next."

She added: "Hacking is illegal and it's not just the companies which are the victims of this, it's also the people who are trying to use their services to shop and the sellers of those items who can't sell them.

Now that's one of the dumbest quotes I've seen for a very long time.

No. Shoppers will go elsewhere, or they'll do the right thing and not buy that particular piece of tat. In the end, the retailers will lose out, not the customer.

And if retailers lose business, who're they gonna blame (by way of the courts)? Visa, PayPal, & Mastercard.

[Vortex]

You have not actually made any concrete predictions as far as I can tell. You made a vague statement about 'Internet is about to be turned into a corporate and/or state controlled zone' without any comment on the mechanisms that could be used to do that.

Yes I have. Legal & technical mechanisms exist .. or if they don't, they soon will. I could suggest precise technical steps that might be employed but (I assume) there are teams far more skilled than me working on that right now.

What is your point exactly?

My point is that I'm not the only one out there preparing for a Brave New (Internet) World.

This is a Big Picture issue ... not a DNS, DDOS or other 'point' issue.

Assange and others have poked TPTB ... and to a very limited degree the general public ... in the eye with a sharp stick.

TPTB will react accordingly. It might be messy.

[Vortex]

No. Shoppers will go elsewhere, or they'll do the right thing and not buy that particular piece of tat. In the end, the retailers will lose out, not the customer.

And if retailers lose business, who're they gonna blame (by way of the courts)? Visa, PayPal, & Mastercard.

Almost everyone pays by plastic nowadays.

The customers, retailers and card service providers will ALL be VERY annoyed and will demand that 'something be done'.

That will gave States the mandate to 'deal with the problem'.

'The War On Cyber Crime' .... a new mantra to replace the rather tired 'War On Terrorism' .

Sadly the measures that will be enacted might be a tad more constraining than the true problems necessitate.

2011, the year the Web died.

[caspian]

Good lord, Vortex, are you always this much of a hysterical drama queen? "2011 the year the web died"? Give me a break. The only thing that'll kill the Internet is a lack of power to run the servers. It's too late for governments to put the genie back in the bottle. There are any number of ways to circumvent state control. The Russian Business Network hasn't had any trouble continuing its activities, and al-Qaeda's media wing, As-Sahab, hasn't been stopped from issuing its propaganda videos.

[woodpecker]

But you forget that all these vast corporations have armies of lobbyists (and lawyers, and government relations specialists), who massively influence what laws we have.

And by and large, they don't want a lockdown. There are quite sensible people working high up at places like Google that are actively opposing further government regulation, in a variety of countries. Some of them even get arrested for doing what they do (see Google experience in Italy).

[sam_uk]

I could suggest precise technical steps that might be employed but (I assume) there are teams far more skilled than me working on that right now.

Go on then, let's play; you suggest the technical steps. I will try and suggest the workaround..

In other (unreleated?) news Paypal releases Wikileaks funds. http://thenextweb.com/media/2010/12/09/ ... aks-funds/

[Vortex]

Haven't any of you worked inside government or inside a large corporation?

Or for the military?

Or perhaps been close friends with someone who has?

Surely you must see that 'the system' is going to swing into action to deal with this new threat?

Trendy-lefty wishful thinking won't prevent what's to come.

(And before you have yet another go at me, check out my avatar. I do my bit for freedom too ... and with greater personal risk than posting socialist platitudes from behind a keyboard.)

[Vortex]

And by and large, they don't want a lockdown.

Maybe the credit card companies think otherwise at the moment ...

[woodpecker]

This is a Big Picture issue ... not a DNS, DDOS or other 'point' issue.

Quite. So why not support an organisation that deals with Big Picture internet stuff on behalf of all of us (e.g. EFF in US, ORG in UK etc.)?

There really are people who've been thinking about this stuff for a while (see the OpEd piece that finally founded ORG, written by Danny O'Brien in the Guardian in August or September 2005), and doing something about it too, by paying for a few bods to do serious lobbying on the other side, for citizens, for us.

And yes, often in cahoots with people who can get things done in high places (because there are some good people in corporates and even on occasion in government).

Rather than cowering under a table, which seems to be your proposal.

[woodpecker]

Haven't any of you worked inside government or inside a large corporation?

Or for the military?

Or perhaps been close friends with someone who has?

Surely you must see that 'the system' is going to swing into action to deal with this new threat?

Trendy-lefty wishful thinking won't prevent what's to come.

(And before you have yet another go at me, check out my avatar. I do my bit for freedom too ... and with greater personal risk than posting socialist platitudes from behind a keyboard.)

I've worked in management a variety of large corporations, and currently consult for major corporates.

I'm also personal friends with some senior American diplomats (and have felt on occasion pummeled for info over dinner - I'm half expecting to see something in the cables...)

And I also sit down formally and regularly with a number of well informed and influential computer security bods, network bods, senior law bods, politicians, and other bods, to discuss the latest developments, the policy horizon and strategy. I have to say, I'd be hard pushed to pin the label left wing onto any of them. Nor are they wishful thinkers.

Writing responses to government consultations on proposed changes in law, appearing before parliamentary committees, meetings with MPs, running seminars, all that... It's all a lot of work.

[UndercoverElephant]

I think that the big boys will win.

They are playing away from home, and will lose. Think of it as being a bit like the Vietnam war: the big boys didn't do so well in the jungle against an enemy which knows that jungle.

Hmm ...so they invented Agent Orange to remove the jungle ...

In this case, "removing the jungle" involves massive damage to corporate and other private interests.

[Lord Beria3]

Just read this.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/02/whe ... -go-along/

Sweden’s Public Prosecutor’s Office was embarrassed in August this year when it leaked to the media that it was seeking to arrest Assange for rape, then on the same day withdrew the arrest warrant because in its own words there was “no evidence

So whats changed now, apart from the fact that Assange is now being threatened with death by carious right-wing loonies like Sarah Palin. What interesting timing to bring back a case with ZERO evidence.

The Swedish concept of legal rape is totally different to any common sense version, its includes consensual sex without a condom. This is what Assange is being prosecuted on, not using a condom.

These woman are disgraceful. They should be prosecuted.

Instead of justifying this judicial crap, you should be fighting the cause of freedom like I am.

[Guest]

EDIT

[UndercoverElephant]

Haven't any of you worked inside government or inside a large corporation?

Or for the military?

Yes. Both.

Surely you must see that 'the system' is going to swing into action to deal with this new threat?

And as we keep telling you, they cannot contain this threat. At the end of the day, the "threat" is free exchange of information via the internet. This CANNOT be stopped without getting rid of the internet. Can't stop terrorist communication, can't stop spammers and scammers, can't stop people swapping child pornography, can't stop people publishing leaked documents. *** CANNOT *** If "they" close down wikileaks, it will be instantly replaced by several other sites doing the same thing. And even if "they" keep closing down such websites, all that will happen is that people will use other ways of communicating such things, even if it is by FTP using simple IP addresses.