What guns to buy? and related posts.

What changes can we make to our lives to deal with the economic and energy crises ahead? Have you already started making preparations? Got tips to share?

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vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

I finally got around to sighting in that 20 gauge sabot gun. It is very ammunition fussy but appears to do quite well with the Remington Accu tips.
I only had one five round box of those so need to get more and have another range session. As it was I had two shots at fifty yards touching each other centered three inches above the bull with the third one and a half inches up and left of the other two. Then I had two at a 100( measured) yards @ 1 3/4" apart, five inches above the bull and two inches right. I'll bring the scope down at least an inch at 100 but won't adjust it left unless it shows some consistency in it as it is most probably from the limitations of the improvised rest I was using and my own out of practice ability. I was sitting in a wooden lawn chair and resting the shotgun on a fifty gallon plastic barrel and a couple of rolled up flannel shirts. Also the scope is seven power max which is great for hunting but far from a target scope.
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Post by slackercruster »

adam2 wrote:Shotguns are relatively easy to obtain lawfully, a shotgun certificate is required to so do ,but is fairly easy to obtain.

Rifles are more problematic, a firearms certificate is needed and this is far harder to obtain. A firearms certificate is only granted if the applicant can show a good reason to need one.

Handguns are effectively prohibited, as are automatic weapons.

Air pistols and air rifles of limited power can be purchased by any adult. More powerful air weapons are regarded as firearms.

So you wont get that much informed advice from over here I am afraid.


Did they tighten up on shotgun laws in England? Do you have pumps or semi-auto shotguns or just double barrel?
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Post by Vortex2 »

Do you have pumps or semi-auto shotguns or just double barrel?
You can have either - but max 2 shots in magazine plus one up the spout.

Nothing bigger than 00 buck allowed. No slugs.

Min weapon length 40" for pump action or semi-autos.
vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

I made another purchase today. A Rugger 10-22 take down in stainless steel.
This is a semi-automatic with a ten shot clip and is known for accuracy so it should serve well through Grand children and even Great Grand children.
I am shopping tonight on line for a suitable scope and bases.
I bought this firearm during my lunch break at the local Walmart. Vetting process took about twenty minuets and that only because the manager running the computer pushed the wrong key two thirds of the way through and I had to re-enter the form data.
The stainless take down version is not cheap at $356 US vs just $175 for a base model but this is what I have wanted for years so finally bit the bullet and ponied up the cash.
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Post by ReserveGrowthRulz »

Vortex2 wrote:
Do you have pumps or semi-auto shotguns or just double barrel?
You can have either - but max 2 shots in magazine plus one up the spout.

Nothing bigger than 00 buck allowed. No slugs.

Min weapon length 40" for pump action or semi-autos.
YIKES!!!!

I must admit that while I consider 3 rounds of 00 buck for a single intruder minimally sufficient, it seems unfair for the government to bet the lives of myself and my family on such a ridiculous arbitrary limit.
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ReserveGrowthRulz
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Post by ReserveGrowthRulz »

vtsnowedin wrote:I made another purchase today. A Rugger 10-22 take down in stainless steel
The youth model 10-22 was my boys first semi-auto. I had it out at the range not a couple weeks ago. Short barrel, short stock, tiny little thing, yet perfectly nice and accurate for all sorts of plinking.
vtsnowedin wrote: This is a semi-automatic with a ten shot clip and is known for accuracy so it should serve well through Grand children and even Great Grand children.
I am shopping tonight on line for a suitable scope and bases.
Found a little 4X on sale about the time I got it for the boy years and years ago, it was pretty easy to mount and sight in. Right now I've got my old hunting scope on the other 22LR semi-auto, a S&W M&P15-22. Rail mounted last week when I put a forehand grip on it. Love those rails, I'm going to put a small one on the Ruger I think so I can experiment with different optics on both 22's.

I need to know what I want to put on my first AR when I get it. Who knows when the prices will start to get crazy with all the attention focused on nutjobs with semi-autos this past weekend.
vtsnowedin wrote: I bought this firearm during my lunch break at the local Walmart. Vetting process took about twenty minuets and that only because the manager running the computer pushed the wrong key two thirds of the way through and I had to re-enter the form data.
The stainless take down version is not cheap at $356 US vs just $175 for a base model but this is what I have wanted for years so finally bit the bullet and ponied up the cash.
I never wanted one, got it on sale and it was just a semi I'd never owned so why not, when the boy became interested.

My favorite was always the Marlin 60, tube fed, small scope, less expensive than the Ruger, gave it away to a buddy when I divested myself of odds and ends play rifles around the time the kids were born.

Most recent acquisition, and it took about 20 minutes as well, was a S&W Shield in 9mm. I like the trigger so much better than my old baby CCW, a Ruger LC9. I went in to buy a EC9s, the trigger is certainly better than the old hammer fired LC9 mechanism, but the S&W had it beat 6 ways from Sunday. Looking pretty hard at a Ruger Security 9 though, fits my hand like nothing else I'ever held, and they aren't very expensive, and their magazine capacity sits right at the max allowed in Colorado.
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:................I must admit that while I consider 3 rounds of 00 buck for a single intruder minimally sufficient, it seems unfair for the government to bet the lives of myself and my family on such a ridiculous arbitrary limit.
It's not a problem in most countries where there is an extremely limited supply of weapons and very little problems with intruders. We lived in a house with no lock on the front door for fifteen years with not one single intrusion although we did have 1000 ltr of diesel pinched from just outside one time when we were out.

There is a problem with gangs in cities but it is confined mainly to the gangs and gang members and that usually involves knives.
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ReserveGrowthRulz
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Post by ReserveGrowthRulz »

kenneal - lagger wrote:
ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:................I must admit that while I consider 3 rounds of 00 buck for a single intruder minimally sufficient, it seems unfair for the government to bet the lives of myself and my family on such a ridiculous arbitrary limit.
It's not a problem in most countries where there is an extremely limited supply of weapons and very little problems with intruders.
I can imagine. Especially the limited numbers of intruder part. Turns out, with a smaller intruder population, the opportunity to defends ones self and family could potentially disappear!

I learned this in suburbia, because where I grew up in Appalachia wasn't so...docile.
kenneal-lagger wrote: We lived in a house with no lock on the front door for fifteen years with not one single intrusion although we did have 1000 ltr of diesel pinched from just outside one time when we were out.
Same here! Although my old man, upon learning that my mother was divorcing him, famously put a couple of rounds through the living room plate glass window to put an exclamation point on his objection. The bullet holes in the mantle were an interesting topic of conversation come the holidays.
lenneal-lagger wrote: There is a problem with gangs in cities but it is confined mainly to the gangs and gang members and that usually involves knives.
And they don't even allow citizens to register to carry a firearm to defend themselves against these villains?

I remember sitting in the car near downtown Denver, close to a homeless shelter and closer yet to the tattoo parlor where the wife was collecting a rose on her shoulder. I had both front windows down for some breeze, was surfing on my phone when one fine displaced citizen and his friend made one of those, one down each side of the car moves. They didn't even try to be cute about it, no one from the front and one from the back, no one sort of hunching down to not be spotted in the side mirrors. I assume it was only a halfhearted effort, or they were new to this type of "lets shake down the old bald fat guy" game. Maybe they were just going to do some simultaneous begging in the hopes that 2 requests were better than one?

The one got close enough to the drivers side window to see what I was using a ball cap to cover up on the center armrest..except I had already removed the ball cap of course, and was just sitting there. Watching them. And waiting.

They reacted appropriately. Which was the point, of course. I mean really, no one wants to shoot homeless folks just because they strayed for an instant from the normal routine of bumming change to something more possibly..proactive?
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:
lenneal-lagger wrote: There is a problem with gangs in cities but it is confined mainly to the gangs and gang members and that usually involves knives.
And they don't even allow citizens to register to carry a firearm to defend themselves against these villains?
They are not a threat to the average citizen so why do we need to be armed? The gang members carry knives to defend themselves and get knifed as a consequence because everyone is carrying a knife! If every one was carrying guns instead they would all get shot and guns would be available to nutters who might carry out mass shootings.

No guns, no mass shootings and its too difficult to kill tens of people if you're only carrying a knife. Three terrorists did manage to kill 8 people and injure 48 in a knife and vehicle attack in London a couple of years ago but that is extremely rare.

And just how many of the over 2000 mass shootings in the US in recent years have been stopped by armed citizens rather than the police?
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ReserveGrowthRulz
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Post by ReserveGrowthRulz »

kenneal - lagger wrote:
ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:
lenneal-lagger wrote: There is a problem with gangs in cities but it is confined mainly to the gangs and gang members and that usually involves knives.
And they don't even allow citizens to register to carry a firearm to defend themselves against these villains?
They are not a threat to the average citizen so why do we need to be armed?
Oh.....just some folks slipping and falling on knives..no one actually jammed them into someone else?

No threat here! So are folks taught to run away as fast as they can, and hope that the person wielding the knife is chubbier and slower?

Does the government encourage the knife murders to eat fast food and junk food so that the average citizen can maintain a fleet of foot advantage?
kenneal-lagger wrote: The gang members carry knives to defend themselves and get knifed as a consequence because everyone is carrying a knife! If every one was carrying guns instead they would all get shot and guns would be available to nutters who might carry out mass shootings.
I see. So the people all being murdered in London are all gang members? The mom-of-one and security guard mentioned in the article would seem to indicate that gang members aren't just killing gang members.

So, these average citizens are supposed to die, as part of a greater good? I wonder what their surviving family members think about sacrificing their loved ones to the idea of being sacrificial lambs to the harmony and peace that is London. Well...except for the sacrificial lambs required anyway.
kenneal-lagger wrote: No guns, no mass shootings and its too difficult to kill tens of people if you're only carrying a knife. Three terrorists did manage to kill 8 people and injure 48 in a knife and vehicle attack in London a couple of years ago but that is extremely rare.
Indeed. Killing by the tens with a knife is difficult. And of course, crazy people are rare, as you mentioned this one in particular.

I suppose as long as it is rare, that makes it okay. I'm sure those 48 folks knifed didn't mind falling into the sacrificial lambs for peace category.
kenneal-lagger wrote: And just how many of the over 2000 mass shootings in the US in recent years have been stopped by armed citizens rather than the police?
More apparently than in the entire history of the UK I'm betting.

Here is a partial list of those demonstrating something pretty basic on this topic, to whit, the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy.

Assuming you weren't just asking because you didn't believe it happens of course.

I myself managed to stop someone from getting killed once. Me!
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Post by vtsnowedin »

kenneal - lagger wrote:
ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:
They are not a threat to the average citizen so why do we need to be armed?
Perhaps not today or any time soon but do you want to be as unarmed as the citizens of the Warsaw ghetto were in 1939?
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Post by ReserveGrowthRulz »

vtsnowedin wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:
ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:
They are not a threat to the average citizen so why do we need to be armed?
Perhaps not today or any time soon but do you want to be as unarmed as the citizens of the Warsaw ghetto were in 1939?
Apparently, they already are.

Seems a bit weird to me, but then our system probably seems a bit weird to KL. The idea of defending yourself? What? Someone dial up a bobby while I run around the kitchen table trying to keep the knife wielding villain at bay!

Good god man, just grab the shotgun behind the door, the AR in the corner by the couch or God's own finger of death itself, the 1911 laying under the hat on the dining room table! Allowing villainy to prance around my kitchen unmolested!! Not in 'Murica!
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Post by Little John »

The problem with guns in America is not guns. It is Americans.

I don't like having to say that because I have come across quite a few Americans in my life and they are nearly always lovely people... at one level.

But, there is a sickness in the American cultural narrative that has been sown by its ruling class as part of the process of creating a false consciousness in its people as part of the ongoing process of maintaining their position.

That narrative goes something like this:

"...We are all rugged individuals. The world owes any one of us nothing and any one of us, in turn, owes the world nothing. If we succeed in life, it is entirely a function of our own will. Conversely, if we fail it is equally a function of our own will..."

Meanwhile, in the real world, people end up in their positions in life for a variety of reason entirely outside of their control. From whose vagina they randomly happened to fall out of at birth and the relative privileges that may or may not confer, to the inherent differences of aptitude we are born with and over which we have no control.

In other parts of the world, not so infected with this narrative, people at the bottom of the food chain can at least comfort themselves with the fact that much of their difficult lives is down to factors outside of their control. But, in America, their cultural narrative means they have only themselves to blame.

So, it sends a significant minority of them insane. The fact that much of that insanity is male dominated is due, I think, to two factors. The first is, simply, testosterone and the way in which it uniquely informs mental illness and the second is that, for a whole series of structural reasons, men are seen as the main breadwinners for families and so it is men who are driven most immediately insane if they cannot succeed.

Add guns into that equation and you get what you get.

In short, give a coherent community of people who are being wronged some guns and they will go looking for an enemy to shoot. But, give an incoherent group of alienated, atomized individuals who have been wronged some guns and they will start shooting each other.

Personally speaking, for all of the specific cultural reasons pertaining to America I am, on balance, anti-guns. But, it is a very fine balance and I am often in two minds about it. The truth is, we live in a tiny moment in history where our governing class afford us at least some (though still extremely inadequate) degree of democratic control over their actions.

But, it will likely not last and, as the world is hitting the limit to economic growth on a finite planet and profits of those at the top are getting squeezed, the ruling class all across the industrialized world is beginning to bring in ever more draconian limits on peoples' freedom of expression and action alongside an ever greater militarization of internal security services. Consequently, there is an argument to be made that now is not the time to be disarming citizens. On balance, as I have said, it is not quite an argument that I could subscribe to. But, I do understand the argument.

Take, for example, the introduction in the UK of the free at the point of use National health service, social care, national education system and all the rest following the end of the Second world War. I think the fact that, following that war, we had millions of trained killers who knew how to use a gun marching back home and who were not prepared to be told they had to go back to their pre-war poverty may have played some significant part in those concessions of the ruling class. They were scared of us back then. They are not so scared of us now.

It's only surprising it has taken the bastards 80 odd years to claw most of it back
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

It is sad, I think, that RGR and VT live in a country where they feel afraid and require to have arms to protect themselves. In the UK and a lot of Europe we just don't have that fear. It is a much better way to live that is possible because there are very few arms about and it is very difficult to get hold of them.

I have guns for hunting but they are locked away safely and if we did have an intruder I would probably not be able to get them out before the intruder got to me so my immediate reaction would be to grab a large kitchen knife or the cleaver we have in a kitchen drawer. But that is not something that I often think about or have to think about. And thank god and gun control for that.
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Post by ReserveGrowthRulz »

Little John wrote:The problem with guns in America is not guns. It is Americans.

AGREED!!! Little John you bullshitter you, you are right!!

You can take a loaded howitzer and drop it in my living room surrounded by anti tank rockets and it would sit there until the day I die, with no usefulness to me whatsoever.

But do that to one of these crazy folks...and they would be salivating and plotting on how to do the most damage with it at the Broncos stadium!
Little John wrote:
In other parts of the world, not so infected with this narrative, people at the bottom of the food chain can at least comfort themselves with the fact that much of their difficult lives is down to factors outside of their control. But, in America, their cultural narrative means they have only themselves to blame.
An interesting perspective, hitting quite close to the mark in this country boy's opinion.
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