New coronavirus in/from China

Forum for general discussion of Peak Oil / Oil depletion; also covering related subjects

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Catweazle
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Post by Catweazle »

Little John wrote:Give it up man.
I can only make judgements based on facts.

Back in Spring we had a doubling of the normal death rate, due to a new disease that nobody knew about. Hospitals were being overwhelmed, NHS staff looked shellshocked. Infections were on an exponential increase, mortality rates high, long-term effects completely unknown.

A lockdown was the logical step then, and partial lockdowns of hotspots remain the logical choice.

The available facts support this, but you discount them and post irrelevant figures and quotes of people talking about extra-strength flu vaccines deliberately culling the elderly. You deliberately mis-quote too, like your "they told us kawasaki disease would kill all our children". How can anybody take you seriously ?
Little John
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Post by Little John »

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... PV2sseeqRo

So, they are threatening to bring in the army of people do not comply. This is what it has come to
eatyourveg
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Post by eatyourveg »

Little John wrote:https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... PV2sseeqRo

So, they are threatening to bring in the army of people do not comply. This is what it has come to
That is fake news. If Princess Di is not mentioned in a Daily Express article, it's fake. That simple.
"Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools". Douglas Bader.
Little John
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Post by Little John »

Initiation
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Post by Initiation »

You can listen to the entire Podcast here from Dr Michael Yeadon.

It is a fantastic listen but terriyfying at the same time. How have the questions or doubts he raise not been addressed by the Government to date?
https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/download/cw ... 86i02g.mp3 download here, or listen online.
https://delingpole.podbean.com/e/dr-mike-yeadon/

It is completely at odds with the message coming out of SAGE.


*I will acknowledge that he is being hosted on the podcast of James Delingpole. Delingpole is a climate change sceptic however he pretty much lets Yeadon speak for the full interview with very very little of his own input. I do not believe the platform should impinge on the points Yeadon is making.
Little John
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Post by Little John »

https://lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/
What SAGE Has Got Wrong
16 October 2020. Updated 21 October 2020.

by Mike Yeadon


“It’s Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.� – Mark Twain

Dr Mike Yeadon has a degree in biochemistry and toxicology and a research-based PhD in respiratory pharmacology. He has spent over 30 years leading new medicines research in some of the world’s largest pharmaceutical companies, leaving Pfizer in 2011 as Vice President & Chief Scientist for Allergy & Respiratory. That was the most senior research position in this field in Pfizer. Since leaving Pfizer, Dr Yeadon has founded his own biotech company, Ziarco, which was sold to the worlds biggest drug company, Novartis, in 2017.

Abstract

SAGE made – and continues to make – two fatal errors in its assessment of the SAR-CoV-2 pandemic, rendering its predictions wildly inaccurate, with disastrous results. These errors led SAGE to conclude that the pandemic is still in its early stages, with the vast majority (93%) of the UK population remaining susceptible to infection and that, in the absence of more action, a very high number of deaths will occur.

Error 1: Assuming that 100% of the population was susceptible to the virus and that no pre-existing immunity existed.
Error 2: The belief that the percentage of the population that has been infected can be determined by surveying what fraction of the population has antibodies.

Both of these points run entirely counter to known science regarding viruses and to a significant amount of evidence, as I will demonstrate. The more likely situation is that the susceptible population is now sufficiently depleted (now <40%, perhaps <30%) and the immune population sufficiently large that there will not be another large, national scale outbreak of COVID-19. Limited, regional outbreaks will be self-limiting and the pandemic is effectively over. This matches current evidence, with COVID-19 deaths remaining a fraction of what they were in spring, despite numerous questionable practices, all designed to artificially increase the number of apparent COVID-19 deaths......
Little John
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Post by Little John »

The latest research on the fallacy of coercive mask wearing:

A U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report revealed that, of the symptomatic adults with COVID-19, 70.6% always wore a mask and still got sick, compared to 7.8% for those who rarely or never wore a mask

Dr. Jim Meehan, an ophthalmologist, conducted an evidence-based scientific analysis on masks, which shows that not only should healthy people not be wearing masks, but they could be harmed as a result

A working paper from the National Bureau of Economic Research found that nonpharmaceutical interventions, such as lockdowns, quarantines and mask mandates, have not significantly affected overall virus transmission rates

Children forced to wear masks for long periods could experience mental and psychological repercussions, and at least 17 physical risks are also posed by wearing masks

With the lack of any solid evidence to support mask use among the general population, mask mandates are demonstrably being used as political and psychological tools rather than one aimed at protecting public health

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/arti ... JWSxuzjGUw
vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

It all comes down to how you present the data.
(forgiver me for using some Vermont numbers but I have them in hand)
"The bubble headed bleach blonde that comes on at five will tell you about the Covide with a gleam in her eye."
" It is interesting when people die give us stats and figures."
She will tell you that new cases in Vermont tripled in just a week.
Then that active cases rose 35% last week and are three times what they were just a month ago.
Then she will with a look of complete fear in her best award winning performance will tell you that Vermont's hospitalization rate has jumped 400% in just four days.
She will forget to tell you that the hospitalization went from one patient to four and that the death rate in Vermont for the last 82 days has been ZERO.
It is going to be an interesting winter regardless of who wins the election as nobody left or right can actually do anything effective to combat this disease and all of the things suggested actually do more harm then good.
stumuz1
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Post by stumuz1 »

Very interesting article from an academic I have been following for a while.

Countries which have adopted the theory that the virus is spread not only by fomites and droplets, but also aerosols, have better outcomes. Facemasks seem to prevent the aerosol transmission.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... wash-hands
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Catweazle
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Post by Catweazle »

stumuz1 wrote:Very interesting article from an academic I have been following for a while.

Countries which have adopted the theory that the virus is spread not only by fomites and droplets, but also aerosols, have better outcomes. Facemasks seem to prevent the aerosol transmission.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... wash-hands
Wasn't that one of the earliest theories ? Leading to the near-impossibility of buying FFP3 facemasks ?

Incidentally, the shortage continues - I just received a box of 25 masks I ordered in May, essential for me as I work with carbon fibre composites.

I wondered if the aerosol aspect was swept under the carpet in favour of soap simply because everybody had soap and no masks were available.
stumuz1
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Post by stumuz1 »

Catweazle wrote:
I wondered if the aerosol aspect was swept under the carpet in favour of soap simply because everybody had soap and no masks were available.
Yes.

Instead of getting everyone with a sowing needle to make masks, deliver a coherent message, they went for the centralised we know best strategy.

But then again so did every country.
stumuz1
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Post by stumuz1 »

This also has a bearing on how the world will change post pandemic.

I was doing some woodwork in the workshop yesterday, wearing a home-made mask my sister in law stitched. It has a little pocket where you insert a sheet of kitchen towel. When finished the kitchen towel is put on the woody, and the mask washed.

Wont' be buying disposable masks again.

How many people will cut their own hair, brew their own beer, grow their own veg, bake their.......

Things will change.
Initiation
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Post by Initiation »

stumuz1 wrote:Facemasks seem to prevent the aerosol transmission.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... wash-hands
The problem I have with this is the actual real world evidence does not at all support this. If aerosols are significant AND masks stop them then why are countries like Spain (where they have very onerous mask rules) still seeing an increase in cases?

Until earlier this year, the scientific concensus was that masks offer no protection for the general public. Remember when we were told this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sWjT70-es4
Suddenly a piece of reused damp cotton works! Even in clinical settings their effectiveness has been up for debate. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1853618/

I await the Danish RCT on mask effectiveness which has been delayed because the authors cannot find a journal "brave" enough to publish it.
vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

I suspect that the main reason mask wearing does work is that those that are wearing them also practice social distancing and hand disinfection as much as possible while wearing them. It is the combination of apparel and behavior that might make the difference.
That said you could not pay me enough to get me to ride on an urban bus or commuter train today nor will I go to a bar even if the government allows them to be wide open.
It is every man for himself.
stumuz1
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Post by stumuz1 »

Initiation wrote:
The problem I have with this is the actual real world evidence does not at all support this.
But logic would suggest they absorb aerosols and even if they are proven ineffective, do they actually cause harm? If worn properly and not as a panacea, then what harm can they do.
Initiation wrote: If aerosols are significant AND masks stop them then why are countries like Spain (where they have very onerous mask rules) still seeing an increase in cases?
That's easy to answer, the Spanish are just coming out of their facist era state. They have lived with severe repression, so the populace is used to seeing civilian security guards with heavy truncheons beat non cooperative citizens. The spread is down to culture, oblique non compliance in private, and defiance of central control on a personal level.
The Spanish youth have never given up on their parties, or socialising in private.
Initiation wrote:
Until earlier this year, the scientific concensus was that masks offer no protection for the general public.
I think it was contradictory, as per academic ego's

The Welsh CMO in March flip-flopped from masks provide no protection, to masks provide some protection, to advisory use on public transport, to compulsory use on public transport, to advisory use in indoor spaces, to compulsory use in indoor spaces.

Personally, I have used one whenever I have been in a shop since march.
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