Greer absolutely nails it....

Forum for general discussion of Peak Oil / Oil depletion; also covering related subjects

Moderator: Peak Moderation

User avatar
Potemkin Villager
Posts: 1335
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:58 am
Location: Narnia

Re: Greer absolutely nails it....

Post by Potemkin Villager »

Stumuz2 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:12 pm
UndercoverElephant wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:45 pm Just googled that. Seems like a whole load of ignorant reactionary nonsense.
Croeso am Byth mêt :D
Also you should consider just what a situation you may be moving into.... I mean really consider it.
The Stone Age represents 99.99% of mankind's existence on this planet. Francis Pryor
User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 11328
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:00 am
Location: south east England

Re: Greer absolutely nails it....

Post by UndercoverElephant »

Stumuz2 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:18 pm BTW

A word on 'foraging'

It is about as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit round these parts. I have my samphire patch which is pretty inaccessible. I have 'had ' it for years. Since lockdown more refugees have been renting statics wherever there is a patch of land (£200 a week who can blame the landowners)

Some tw*t has found my samphire patch and stripped it bare. It's dead.
There is a difference between teaching people and commercially collecting stuff. The commercial collectors piss a lot of people off...pretty much everywhere. (And there's no "round here" about this. What do you think it is like in south-east England, where the population density is several times higher??) People collecting for themselves...not so much. Yes, people get irrationally attached to "their spot" - whether it is for samphire or penny buns or whatever. But that's part of foraging. It's never actually "your spot".

I've spent the last 10 years navigating this particular minefield - and I mean I have been right in the middle of it, and have regularly been interviewed on radio and sometimes TV about it. I write books about it (the cultural issues, as well as the practicalities).

As for your samphire patch, if it is dead then they ripped up the samphire instead of cutting it off. This is exactly the sort of thing I teach people NOT to do. I also don't teach people WHERE to find things like samphire. I teach them about as many different edible species as possible, and I try to take people to as many different places as possible. The whole point is to teach people how to find their own locations, not for me to find locations and sell knowledge of them to people. That's why it would be ideal to have my own tract of land where I can deliberately introduce all sorts of things.

I am not an Eastern European. You wouldn't believe the trouble I've had with them (well, maybe you would). Last year I ran a load of mushroom foraging events on private land at a wedding venue in Tunbridge Wells. Loads of fungi, should have been great. The problem was Polish people coming on to that land and totally stripping it. They had no right to be there - they were trespassing. Anyway...the first time I ran one of these events I was told by one of the participants that she'd seen somebody foraging 15 minutes before we started. Everything had been taken. I told the owners. They said they'd keep a sharp eye out. The next week, I had another group and I actually caught this woman red-handed. I called reception and she was told in no uncertain terms to F--k off and not come back. I'm charging £60 a head for this...I cannot do that while some Polish ***** is walking around taking all the good stuff. Anyway...later that afternoon as the group was leaving, there's another Polish guy walking round with a bucket, looking for stuff. He pretended he couldn't speak English and was very slow to leave.

The next afternoon the venue gave me a call. Guess what? The same woman had come back the next afternoon, and had been caught stealing a pumpkin from their vegetable patch. The damned cheek of it. This wasn't ignorance. She knew perfectly well she had no right to be there, but she came back anyway.

Sadly, this is not an isolated incident. The behaviour of Eastern Europeans regarding foraging is absolutely shameful.
It is about as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit round these parts.
And you think it is different in south-east England, with a much higher population density??
Last edited by UndercoverElephant on Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 11328
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:00 am
Location: south east England

Re: Greer absolutely nails it....

Post by UndercoverElephant »

Potemkin Villager wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:38 pm
Stumuz2 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:12 pm
UndercoverElephant wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:45 pm Just googled that. Seems like a whole load of ignorant reactionary nonsense.
Croeso am Byth mêt :D
Also you should consider just what a situation you may be moving into.... I mean really consider it.
I live in the UK. I am a resident of this country and I have every right to move wherever the F--k I like. Quite frankly. I am not going to be intimidated if I am actually doing nothing threatening.

I can understand why people don't like this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49666610
Aberystwyth farmer Wyn Evans, a member of a group opposing the Rewilding Britain project, claimed it was pushing forward with little local consultation.

"I can't see how we can move forward with working with them," he told Radio Wales Breakfast with Claire Summers on Thursday.

Summit to Sea has received funding of £3.4m over the next five years from the Endangered Landscapes Programme.
The problem here isn't actually the rewilding. It's the £3.4m. This isn't people moving in and doing something with their own land. It's money moving in from external "do-gooders", and they view it as the thin end of the wedge. They are worried that whoever has come up with this money will follow it up with more, strategically buying up farmland in order to rewild wales.

What I am suggesting is planting up a few fields - marginal fields on sloping land - with native trees. This isn't damaging anybody's livelihood. And especially given what forum we are on, I think there should be more recognition that things like this NEED to happen. Our culture has to change. We're supposed to be part of that change, not reacting to it.
anotherexlurker
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:34 pm

Re: Greer absolutely nails it....

Post by anotherexlurker »

That property does look good for the price if you want 38 acres (it was showing and still is showing as under offer, so might be too late anyway).
If you were to utter you phrase ignorant reactionary nonsense you probably would make your life "interesting".

Something that does not seem to be considered is that it is a real possibility that the UK will cease to exist in X (25?) years , now whilst its presently unlikely for wales to vote for independence , If Scotland leaves and Ireland reunifies are you sure that England wont vote to be totally independent from Wales? That could create tensions between native Welsh and English immigrants.

If the shit really hits the fan regardless of whats right or wrong morally , England (being the vastly more populated country) would no doubt "help it's self" to any needed resources that just happened to be over the borders in Wales or Scotland. As long as England retained nukes no other country would interfere (assuming here that the worlds in the shit so sanctions and normal niceties are irrelevant).
User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 11328
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:00 am
Location: south east England

Re: Greer absolutely nails it....

Post by UndercoverElephant »

anotherexlurker wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:03 pm That property does look good for the price if you want 38 acres (it was showing and still is showing as under offer, so might be too late anyway).
We are just planning it now. We won't be moving for another 2 years.
If you were to utter you phrase ignorant reactionary nonsense you probably would make your life "interesting".
I am uttering that phrase here. I would be more diplomatic there. I really think what I am suggesting is not as threatening as an outside organisation buying up land to rewild it. I'd be living on it, and rewilding it in order to make a living out of it. There would be nothing stopping a future owner from felling all the trees and turning it back into pasture.
Something that does not seem to be considered is that it is a real possibility that the UK will cease to exist in X (25?) years , now whilst its presently unlikely for wales to vote for independence , If Scotland leaves and Ireland reunifies are you sure that England wont vote to be totally independent from Wales? That could create tensions between native Welsh and English immigrants.
It is now highly probable that NI will leave the UK and become part of a united Ireland. But I think it is very unlikely Scotland will be given the chance of another referendum on independence - not within the next 20 years anyway. It's just not in the interest of any imaginable Westminster government to permit that to happen. Electoral suicide for all three major UK-wide parties. And I think the chance of Wales leaving the UK is basically nil.
If the shit really hits the fan regardless of whats right or wrong morally , England (being the vastly more populated country) would no doubt "help it's self" to any needed resources that just happened to be over the borders in Wales or Scotland. As long as England retained nukes no other country would interfere (assuming here that the worlds in the shit so sanctions and normal niceties are irrelevant).
England doesn't have any nukes. England has no more sovereign power than Wales or Scotland do. The UK has nukes.
User avatar
Catweazle
Posts: 2817
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:04 pm
Location: Petite Bourgeois, over the hills

Re: Greer absolutely nails it....

Post by Catweazle »

Perhaps there are comments made behind my back, I suppose I wouldn't know, but I have had a warm welcome here from lovely people. When I put up a marquee and hosted my sons wedding reception here some neighbours came over and insisted on collecting and doing all the washing up - "as a wedding gift".

Before I had a mower and baler I had a local farmer cut and take the hay, he left me enough bales to feed my 5 sheep ( they were here when I moved in ). Transactions like that build a relationship, working in local companies helps, especially if you have a skill that isn't common locally. If you don't need to work locally then there are social organisations like this one just starting up in Cardigan:

https://www.facebook.com/CardiShed/

Honestly, I don't think you need to worry about not fitting in, the area is awash with artists, hippies and "self sufficientish" types, if you respect people and don't try to tell them what to do you'll be fine. I love it here and will never move away.
User avatar
eyeswide
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:41 pm
Location: Sussex
Contact:

Re: Greer absolutely nails it....

Post by eyeswide »

Still here, still taking notes.

We don't need 38 acres. I'm quite intimidated by the thought of more than about 5. Geoff does have a touch of land fever. We just need to keep looking at everything available at the moment so we can work towards a final decision.

Noting especially the comments about the damp. We are already taking a big leap, I think we have to be honest that we wouldn't have a fricking clue how to build our own house. The ideas about how to better insulate and damp proof an existing one appeal more - we need to budget for this. I don't want to be always cold and wet...

We are very lucky in that we don't need to make an income from our new home, as we can both work remotely and Geoff has royalties coming in too. But I might look for some local work anyway as a way to meet people, and then there's the school gate too. The downside is, our income is low. Renting for a year isn't really an option for us, not without putting a big dent in our budget.

I love the Lammas idea and joining an intentional community has always appealed to me. But that's because I'm capable of great political sensitivity, diplomacy, and even veganism at a push. Someone else around here would find it harder, I think. We'd be wise to allow ourselves some privacy and space.

I'm pretty good at integrating into communities, setting up mutual aid and communal projects and whatnot... in towns. Country life is new to me. I hope some of those skills will be transferable.
User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 11328
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:00 am
Location: south east England

Re: Greer absolutely nails it....

Post by UndercoverElephant »

Catweazle wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:43 pm Perhaps there are comments made behind my back, I suppose I wouldn't know, but I have had a warm welcome here from lovely people. When I put up a marquee and hosted my sons wedding reception here some neighbours came over and insisted on collecting and doing all the washing up - "as a wedding gift".

Before I had a mower and baler I had a local farmer cut and take the hay, he left me enough bales to feed my 5 sheep ( they were here when I moved in ). Transactions like that build a relationship, working in local companies helps, especially if you have a skill that isn't common locally. If you don't need to work locally then there are social organisations like this one just starting up in Cardigan:

https://www.facebook.com/CardiShed/

Honestly, I don't think you need to worry about not fitting in, the area is awash with artists, hippies and "self sufficientish" types, if you respect people and don't try to tell them what to do you'll be fine. I love it here and will never move away.
That is sort of what we are hoping for, yes.

What we're planning on doing will actually bring more tourists into the area anyway. I already have people coming from as far away as Dorset and Birmingham to my events near Hastings. They usually make a weekend of it, and spend money on other local businesses.
User avatar
BritDownUnder
Posts: 941
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:02 pm
Location: Hunter Valley, NSW, Australia

Re: Greer absolutely nails it....

Post by BritDownUnder »

I say buy as much land as possible. As Abraham Lincoln said (well my father said that he said it) "invest in land - they don't make it anymore". You can always sell some of it off in small packages to other people who want a similar lifestyle, they could even put yurts on it!!!!
However you said you will use if for foraging classes so moot point.

From memory, when I worked for an actuarial company, they used to manage the pension fund for the "Country Landowner's Association" or Lundry C*ntowners Association as we called it. Anyway if you own more than 15 acres of farmland you are entitled to join this hallowed institution and you can officially tell people to "Get orf my land - you peasant".

Those "Shed" ideas are in Australia too with things like "Mens Shed" for mentally stressed men to go to.

I had never heard of samphire before today. Learnt something new again.
G'Day cobber!
User avatar
Catweazle
Posts: 2817
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:04 pm
Location: Petite Bourgeois, over the hills

Re: Greer absolutely nails it....

Post by Catweazle »

UndercoverElephant wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:18 pm What we're planning on doing will actually bring more tourists into the area anyway. I already have people coming from as far away as Dorset and Birmingham to my events near Hastings. They usually make a weekend of it, and spend money on other local businesses.
Exactly what the area needs and the council knows it. We have designer bakeries, charcutieres, coffee shops etc etc, all depending on the tourist £ .

The local shops and restaurants will love you.
User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 11328
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:00 am
Location: south east England

Re: Greer absolutely nails it....

Post by UndercoverElephant »

BritDownUnder wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:58 pm I say buy as much land as possible. As Abraham Lincoln said (well my father said that he said it) "invest in land - they don't make it anymore". You can always sell some of it off in small packages to other people who want a similar lifestyle, they could even put yurts on it!!!!
Need planning permission for that.
I had never heard of samphire before today. Learnt something new again.
What people call samphire is a usurper. That name, these days, usually refers to Salicornia sp., which are tiny saltmarsh plants belonging to the Amaranth family (along with beets, spinach and chard, though it is nothing like any of them). These plants were historically called "glassworts" and were used in the glass-making industry for their silica content. The original "samphire" is a cliff plant in the carrot family, now called "rock samphire". It is similar fleshy but with a much stronger flavour (glassworts just taste salty, rock samphire tastes like supercharged carrots). Anyway, rock samphire became a very popular snack in London, pickled in seawater and transported there in barrels, to the extent that it was being foraged out of existence. People then started using glasswort to adulterate it, and eventually the glasswort took over the trade and also took over the name.

Marsh Samphire grows in vast colonies in parts of eastern England - places like Norfolk where there is a lot of coastal mudflat. Where I am in Sussex, and on the northern coast of the the south-western peninsula of Wales, it's much rarer. Rock samphire has now recovered and is reasonably common on most rocky British coastlines.
User avatar
BritDownUnder
Posts: 941
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:02 pm
Location: Hunter Valley, NSW, Australia

Re: Greer absolutely nails it....

Post by BritDownUnder »

UndercoverElephant wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:21 pm
BritDownUnder wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:58 pm I say buy as much land as possible. As Abraham Lincoln said (well my father said that he said it) "invest in land - they don't make it anymore". You can always sell some of it off in small packages to other people who want a similar lifestyle, they could even put yurts on it!!!!
Need planning permission for that.
I bet Genghis Khan never had to apply for planning permission for his yurt.

Nothing is easy but if you can split off a few acres to a similar smallholder you could get some of your money back. You will probably have to grease a few local council palms before you can get the permission.
G'Day cobber!
User avatar
Catweazle
Posts: 2817
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:04 pm
Location: Petite Bourgeois, over the hills

Re: Greer absolutely nails it....

Post by Catweazle »

How do you guys who live out West view the political differences between the counties ?

There are vey substantial differences between, say Pembrokeshire and Ceredigion or Carmarthenshire.

Image
User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 11328
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:00 am
Location: south east England

Re: Greer absolutely nails it....

Post by UndercoverElephant »

Catweazle wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:22 am How do you guys who live out West view the political differences between the counties ?

There are vey substantial differences between, say Pembrokeshire and Ceredigion or Carmarthenshire.

Image
There's a lot of independents in there.

Nobody represents me politically anymore. I usually vote tactically anti-tory, but even that's not clear cut anymore. I can't vote for the Green Party while people like Caroline Lucas are its leading lights. She's turned it into the Identity Politics Party. Can't vote libdem because they are anti-democratic. I want somebody to start a "collapse party" - a party which accepts the inevitability of the collapse of global techno-industrial civilisation and develops policies accordingly. And that ain't the Green Party.
User avatar
clv101
Site Admin
Posts: 8911
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:09 am
Contact:

Re: Greer absolutely nails it....

Post by clv101 »

Independents are mostly Tories but without the unpopular party affiliation.
Post Reply