Human Evolution - is it the endgame?

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 16 Nov 2010, 00:47

JohnB wrote:
Lord Beria3 wrote:Thats precisely my problem, its obsession with ethics and values.
There is no obsession with ethics and values. It's an element of the system.

Are you saying that you're happy to do something that suits you, but fucks up your neighbours lives? Or is a design system where you decide what you want to do, but then just ask yourself "does this have an adverse effect on anyone else?" actually quite a good idea, and ultimately in your best interests to? If you crap on your neighbours doorstep, you can't complain if they crap on yours.

This seems like the golden rule, there are other ways to live than do unto others as you would have them do to you.

In a period of lethal competition for resources yes of course you want to do things that suit you and fucks up your neighbors lives, I ideally you want to cause their demise because they are your competition.

And yes of course you can still complain if your neighbor craps on your doorstep after you have crapped on his, your doorstep is your door step and infinitively more valuable to you than his doorstep .

lurker · Post by **lurker** » 16 Nov 2010, 10:26

The trouble with permaculture is that most proponents of it are to busy worshiping crystals that they wouldn't know what end of a spade to dig with. Ah i forgot they never dig the soil

Also the whole concept doesn't seem as productive or in anyway superior as a traditional organic veg garden imo

Its basically like a scientology cult of gardening. People charging extortionate prices for courses etc...

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » 16 Nov 2010, 10:30

lurker wrote:The trouble with permaculture is that most proponents of it are to busy worshiping crystals that they wouldn't know what end of a spade to dig with.

Evidence? Name names?

I've got no idea about crystals or what to do with them. I must admit I do find it painful and hard work doing digging though. I keep cutting my hands on the metal handle, and the wooden end doesn't seem to pick up much soil.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 16 Nov 2010, 10:55

there are other ways to live than do unto others as you would have them do to you

Yes but they're all miserable and won't work in the long run.

I'm not religious but even I am willing to say that that short sentence is christianity's one stroke of genius.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 16 Nov 2010, 11:31

Almost as good as the pagan 'an it harms none do as ye will'.

syberberg · Post by **syberberg** » 17 Nov 2010, 04:17

biffvernon wrote:Almost as good as the pagan 'an it harms none do as ye will'.

Which was first coined by Aliester Crowley and comes from "The Book of The Law." It was incorporated into Gardnerian Wicca by his friend Gerald Gardner when they decided it might be a fun idea to create a female-centric earth sex cult back in 1930, just before Crowley died.

The original form (from The Book of The Law) is: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of The Law. Love is The Law. Love under will."

Before anyone asks, no I'm not Wiccan as I consider Wiccans to be the mystical/occultic equivalent of cannon fodder/Chthonic hors d'oeurves.

Kieran · Post by **Kieran** » 17 Nov 2010, 13:13

"Chthonic hors d'hoeurves" - mmmmm - sounds yummy.

The golden rule is pretty universal:

http://www.teachingvalues.com/goldenrule.html

Definitely predates Christianity.

syberberg · Post by **syberberg** » 17 Nov 2010, 16:20

Kieran wrote:"Chthonic hors d'hoeurves" - mmmmm - sounds yummy.

The golden rule is pretty universal:

http://www.teachingvalues.com/goldenrule.html

Definitely predates Christianity.

Unforeseen consequences of deepwater drilling,

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 17 Nov 2010, 17:45

In a couple of those religions your brother is defined as a person sharing the same religion its not universal .
I can think of civilizations that lasted quite a while and put members of their tribe first and didnt have this golden rule attitude.

It will be interesting to see how well the golden rule works for you in a period of lethal competition for resources .

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 17 Nov 2010, 17:46

Now that we are entering contraction/decline, does theis mean the end for human evolution?

Is the inevitable die-off and technology loss going to take us backwards from the peak of human evolution?

I think all the technological help we now have has put evolution in the Doldrums, or at least sent it in a different direction. Simple example: body chemistry that makes you able/want to stuff your face with all available sugary stuff during the brief fruit season in stone-age times was a winner, now it's the opposite.

If PO pans out as some here expect, old-style human evolution will be back with a vengeance. It might even make us cleverer, or more sociable (as we'd have to stick together to survive).

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 17 Nov 2010, 17:52

emordnilap wrote:Don't forget alchemy too,

That's just fusion or fission, depending on what you want to make from what.

Kieran · Post by **Kieran** » 17 Nov 2010, 19:20

@Syberberg: BP are a bunch of Cthulhu worshippers

@johnny2mad: Yes it is pretty much universal in the worlds religions. At least the general principle is...

BTW are you really a psycho nutjob or are you just trying to get into the appropriate mindset given your vision of a mad max future?

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 17 Nov 2010, 20:21

Well in islam your brother is a person of the same religion, you have examples of early muslims killing their own parents because they opposed islam, Abu Ubaydah ibn Al-Jarrah killed his father.

There was another famous Muslim who after a battle met his father who had fought on the anti Muslim side, and his father said its good that we didn't meet on the field of battle I avoided you and when I heard you were somewhere I went somewhere else
His son answered well father when I heard you were somewhere I went there to try to kill you, because you fought god and his prophet Mohammad .

Read the old testament and tell me that the Jews applied the golden rule to non Jews, you have a couple of million people mainly non Jews killed in racial genocide in the old testament .

This is my mindset, I'm not going to apply it at the moment but if I was in lethal competition for resources I would, if the other person wishes to apply the golden rule thats fine

Kieran · Post by **Kieran** » 17 Nov 2010, 21:18

jonny2mad wrote:This is my mindset, I'm not going to apply it at the moment...

Well, glad to hear that.

Those genocidal warring middle eastern tribes were a particularly nasty bunch and not very good role models IMHO.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 17 Nov 2010, 21:38

lurker wrote:The trouble with permaculture is that most proponents of it are to busy worshiping crystals that they wouldn't know what end of a spade to dig with. Ah i forgot they never dig the soil

Also the whole concept doesn't seem as productive or in anyway superior as a traditional organic veg garden imo

Its basically like a scientology cult of gardening. People charging extortionate prices for courses etc...

This is not the case. Permaculture is a science, not a new-age fad. It is the science of making the most efficient usage of natural resources to produce food. It is economically inefficient so long as there is a cheap source of energy.