Human Evolution - is it the endgame?

[JohnB]

Regarding permaculture, I agree that there is a lot of waffle around it... I'm very sceptical about this movement.

Wot! You mean compared to the waffle around banking, economic growth, PO, climate change, greenwash technology, BAU, politics, GM, nuclear power, nuclear weapons, power, greed, money, benefit scroungers........

The difference between most of the above and permaculture is that permaculture is based on a set of ethics, and most of the above is based on greed and screwing everyone else to get what you want. I think you will find there are proportionately less nutters involved in permaculture!

[Lord Beria3]

Thats precisely my problem, its obsession with ethics and values. Im glad to I spent my money on a 8 week course on how to grow food which was completely vocational orientated rather than waste my money on a permaculture course which drones on about ethics and values.

[syberberg]

Thats precisely my problem, its obsession with ethics and values. Im glad to I spent my money on a 8 week course on how to grow food which was completely vocational orientated rather than waste my money on a permaculture course which drones on about ethics and values.

That says a lot about your character LB.

[JohnB]

Thats precisely my problem, its obsession with ethics and values.

There is no obsession with ethics and values. It's an element of the system.

Are you saying that you're happy to do something that suits you, but fucks up your neighbours lives? Or is a design system where you decide what you want to do, but then just ask yourself "does this have an adverse effect on anyone else?" actually quite a good idea, and ultimately in your best interests to? If you crap on your neighbours doorstep, you can't complain if they crap on yours.

[Vortex]

For a view of our future I would suggest that you consider a blend of genomics, highly networked society and Artificial Intelligence.

The last big human evolutionary step may have been around 10,000 - 30,000 years ago.

Even without further biological evolution, humanity as a quasi-organism itself will evolve.

(We must however avoid allowing the development of standalone AI ... we need to ensure that any AI technology is bonded to and dependent on human activity)

Such evolution will happen even if resource and energy limitations start biting.

Take a look at ted.com sometime ... do you think these people will Go Gentle Into That Good Night?

[Lord Beria3]

John - nothing to do with character. I want to learn how to grow food and I found permaculture was a very expensive and overly intellectual way of teaching basic stuff like what stuff to grow, how to grow and how to protect your crops/herbs from the elements.

Maybe it works for you but for me it seemed a bit pointless.

Modern permaculture is a system design tool. It is a way of:

looking at a whole system or problem;
observing how the parts relate;
planning to mend sick systems by applying ideas learned from long-term sustainable working systems;
seeing connections between key parts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permacultu ... rmaculture

My big problem is that the above is the bleeding obvious, we have been doing that intuitively for thousands of years. Yet permaculture comes along and makes out they discovered this approach to doing things. Go back to the medieval age and people intuitively did the above and had systems of doing things based on the above principles.

[emordnilap]

Are we reaching the endgame of human evolution?

No.

We might destroy our home and possibly, somehow, put an end to the human race but this species has a long way to go evolution-wise, particularly in psychological development.

I don't think you really mean evolution.

[JohnB]

My big problem is that the above is the bleeding obvious

If it's so bleeding obvious, why is the planet in such a mess?

[2 As and a B]

[...] and potentially fusion (which is scientifically feasible, it just needs some investment)

Absolutely! Just look out of your window in the morning.

[emordnilap]

Don't forget alchemy too, we need more investment in that.

[Lord Beria3]

Considering how much we spend on bailing out banks, the years Pentagon budget, the few billions which have been spent on fusion research over decades is minute.

Its about time we got serious about fusion. Im sure when PO hits home in the coming 2 decades governments will pile trillions into fusion research (if only for the geopolitical advantage of the first commercially successful fusion plant) and our energy problem will be resolved.

Of course, that transition is the tricky bit... lets hope we get through that without a revertion to the world of jonny2mad dreams (nightmares ).

[2 As and a B]

Yeah! Acquire lead now! Get in at the ground floor (so to speak!)

But why spend trillions on fusion research when it can be spent on real power production now and then nick the technology from some poor sucker country later? You don't get my vote for leader Beria.

[Lord Beria3]

Isn't it obvious? Fusion would solve the worlds energy problems?

[2 As and a B]

So would dilithium crystals.

[Vortex]

Isn't it obvious? Fusion would solve the worlds energy problems?

Err, sort of .. but 'free' energy would bring all sorts of other problems ... including possible global 'heat death' ... climate change on steroids.