Human Evolution - is it the endgame?
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Human Evolution - is it the endgame?
Are we reaching the endgame of human evolution?
I read this statement (or similar) tonight and realised I had never really thought about this before.
We have had fantastic evolution over the last couple of centuries. Just look at what we know today compared to two hundred, a hundred, even 50 years ago. Computers, Internet, mobile phones, text messages, email, cars, aeroplanes, television, astronomy, medicine, standard of living, etc. etc.
Now that we are entering contraction/decline, does theis mean the end for human evolution?
Is the inevitable die-off and technology loss going to take us backwards from the peak of human evolution?
I read this statement (or similar) tonight and realised I had never really thought about this before.
We have had fantastic evolution over the last couple of centuries. Just look at what we know today compared to two hundred, a hundred, even 50 years ago. Computers, Internet, mobile phones, text messages, email, cars, aeroplanes, television, astronomy, medicine, standard of living, etc. etc.
Now that we are entering contraction/decline, does theis mean the end for human evolution?
Is the inevitable die-off and technology loss going to take us backwards from the peak of human evolution?
Real money is gold and silver
No, of course not. After millennia in the olduvai gorge humanity evolves psionic powers and creates a civilization without instrumentalities. Using these abilities to visit other worlds, travelling without moving. Earth becomes a garden paradise.
That or we all get really good at flint knapping again.
That or we all get really good at flint knapping again.
Last edited by Kieran on 14 Nov 2010, 03:08, edited 1 time in total.
the survivors will be likely mighty tough personally as a neo-barbarian I'm hoping we end up looking more Klingon.
I think civilization as ruined us and made us pretty weak but lots of struggle and hardship will do wonders
I think civilization as ruined us and made us pretty weak but lots of struggle and hardship will do wonders
"What causes more suffering in the world than the stupidity of the compassionate?"Friedrich Nietzsche
optimism is cowardice oswald spengler
optimism is cowardice oswald spengler
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Don't you mean "knowledge" rather than "evolution"?
Could be the end of knowledge, heralding in a new dark age where people will revert to believing that the earth is flat and at the centre of the universe and will look on shiny relics with wonder.
But that could also be just the kick mankind needs to evolve to the next stage, whatever that may be.
Could be the end of knowledge, heralding in a new dark age where people will revert to believing that the earth is flat and at the centre of the universe and will look on shiny relics with wonder.
But that could also be just the kick mankind needs to evolve to the next stage, whatever that may be.
Re: Human Evolution - is it the endgame?
I think you may be confusion evolution with technology. A human today is in no real way any different from a human from the end of the last ice age. All of human society has been a progression of technology. From stone to iron, to bronze etc. Those changes were very very slow. The current (last 200 years) rate of technological improvement has been staggeringly fast compared to everything that went before.snow hope wrote:Are we reaching the endgame of human evolution?
I read this statement (or similar) tonight and realised I had never really thought about this before.
We have had fantastic evolution over the last couple of centuries. Just look at what we know today compared to two hundred, a hundred, even 50 years ago. Computers, Internet, mobile phones, text messages, email, cars, aeroplanes, television, astronomy, medicine, standard of living, etc. etc.
Now that we are entering contraction/decline, does theis mean the end for human evolution?
Is the inevitable die-off and technology loss going to take us backwards from the peak of human evolution?
What you may be saying.. and I'm only guessing and presuming, is that for the very first time in human history, we may see a decline in human technology over the coming years.
If we can't use oil, at the rate and low cost we have been using it...then we may not be able to do the basics, let alone improve on what we have.
But, it's not all gloom, a society that doesn't rape the environment for advancement could be seen as a progression. And knowledge doesn't always go away...the idea that the earth is round and we're part of a cosmos would be able to be passed along as shared knowledge. But also we may find it more useful knowledge to know which weeds harm and which weeds heal...(which is knowledge from pre-industrial society that still hasn't quite been forgotten about)
Learn to whittle now... we need a spaceship!
- woodpecker
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I'm every day amazed at some of the claptrap people come out with, that they believe in.
The latest: suspicions about the government and winter flu jab, from a very bright and informed individual. Not a Daily Wail reader.
Are people generally becoming more supertitious? Believing more in conspiracies? Are we going backwards? So much for the age of enlightenment.
The latest: suspicions about the government and winter flu jab, from a very bright and informed individual. Not a Daily Wail reader.
Are people generally becoming more supertitious? Believing more in conspiracies? Are we going backwards? So much for the age of enlightenment.
I wouldn't say I'm amazed, I gave up being amazed by the nonsense people can convince themselves when I argued with the first scientologist I met. I do think rationality and thought are losing ground, and in part as much as I love it I think the internet has a part to play in this.woodpecker wrote:I'm every day amazed at some of the claptrap people come out with, that they believe in.
The latest: suspicions about the government and winter flu jab, from a very bright and informed individual. Not a Daily Wail reader.
Are people generally becoming more supertitious? Believing more in conspiracies? Are we going backwards? So much for the age of enlightenment.
To really build a belief you need to reinforce it and spending hours reading the words of those who never challenge your world view is not healthy. In a normal community you meet a diverse cross section of views, you see other ideas and normally have to find a way to make room for that diversity. In the internet world (also in intentional communities) it is easy to narrow your world view to be narrowed by only interacting with those you agree with.
One of the reasons that cults usually separate their aspiring members from their network is to make sure they don't hear any voices that question the worldview they are trying to create. I think a lot of us are doing this to ourselves now by avoiding voices that challenge what we believe.
I like powerswitch because the group is fairly diverse politically and philosophically, it makes for some noise at times but at least you see assumptions being challenged.
My greatest challenge in recent years was putting up with the nonsense you hear in the group of people attracted to permaculture. For me this seemed to be an essential practical approach but really the amount of nonsense that various groups are trying to attach to the subject has made me seriously question whether I want to spend any more time on it. I certainly would hesitate now to say I'm a permaculturist in public for fear of being branded a moon planting dowser.
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Re: Human Evolution - is it the endgame?
Snowsnow hope wrote:Are we reaching the endgame of human evolution?
Is the inevitable die-off and technology loss going to take us backwards from the peak of human evolution?
I am not sure if evolution is somthing you can describe as peaking although it is easy to see how the evolutionary future of the planet may not include humans just as it no longer includes dinasours...
Overconfidence, not just expert overconfidence but general overconfidence,
is one of the most common illusions we experience. Stan Robinson
is one of the most common illusions we experience. Stan Robinson
- UndercoverElephant
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Re: Human Evolution - is it the endgame?
Here is an answer I prepared earlier...snow hope wrote:Are we reaching the endgame of human evolution?
I read this statement (or similar) tonight and realised I had never really thought about this before.
We have had fantastic evolution over the last couple of centuries. Just look at what we know today compared to two hundred, a hundred, even 50 years ago. Computers, Internet, mobile phones, text messages, email, cars, aeroplanes, television, astronomy, medicine, standard of living, etc. etc.
Now that we are entering contraction/decline, does theis mean the end for human evolution?
Is the inevitable die-off and technology loss going to take us backwards from the peak of human evolution?
What is the relationship between human civilisation and Charles Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection?
One possible answer to that question is that Darwin's theory was the intellectual crowning glory of modern civilisation; that for the first time it allowed humans to understand the mechanism by which the entire terrestrial ecosystem, humans included, was created. It dispensed with any need to believe that God was required as the designer of that system by offering us a far more elegant explanation for its origin and made redundant any belief that the human tendency to "sin" is the result of the influence of the devil. There is a very good scientific explanation for why humans are generally greedy, selfish, dishonest and covetous of their neighbour's spouses: all of these behaviours increase reproductive fitness at the level of the individual. Infidelity and dishonesty pay great dividends provided you manage to get away with them. It is not so beneficial if you get caught. All successful human civilisations imposed harsh punishments on individuals who were found to have broken the basic commandments which held them together. Biological evolution was giving way to cultural evolution, and it was those cultures which most effectively prohibited the most socially-destructive of naturally-evolved human behaviours which survived and prospered. This process of cultural evolution has now led to a situation where, for the majority of humans alive today, biological evolution has been halted in its tracks. This, I submit, is the relationship between human civilisation and the processes of evolution: civilisation is our name for what happens when biological natural selection has been suspended by the cleverness of animals.
In The End of History and the Last Man (1992) Francis Fukuyama wrote that
Fukuyama believed that not only has biological evolution been halted, but that cultural evolution is also approaching a final state, epitomised by the "beneficial hegemony" of US economic and political imperialism. His thesis generated a great deal of criticism, both from proponents of other political/economic systems who didn't agree that "western liberalism" is the best we can do, and from ecologists and anarchists who believe that liberal western civilisation is fundamentally unsustainable and unstable. Fukuyama eventually altered his position, but only to include the caveat that future scientific and technological progress might lead to a post-human or "transhuman" future where humans take control of their own evolution, with potentially catastrophic consequences for liberal democracy. I agree that some genetic technologies are a like a Pandora's box which might be better left closed, but I am skeptical as to whether civilisation as it is currently known in what we call "the developed world" is going to last long enough for this to become a serious problem. I suppose there is always the possibility that we'll use genetic engineering to create humans who have no desire to consume resources they don't really need to consume, and this might indeed cause problems in a world where the need for economic growth trumps both God and ecology.What we may be witnessing is not just the end of the Cold War, or the passing of a particular period of post-war history, but the end of history as such: that is, the end point of mankind's ideological evolution and the universalization of Western liberal democracy as the final form of human government.
Human civilisation is the state of human culture where all humans who are biologically capable of reproducing actually get a chance to reproduce. Where this does not apply - where humans live in a state of poverty so severe that being born comes with no guarantee of the chance to successfully rear offspring - we see a failure of civilisation. When ecological or economic catastrophists speak of "the collapse of civilisation" they refer not only to the demise of civilisation as we currently know it but to the return to a state where biological natural selection begins to operate once again on the majority of humans, not just those who currently comprise the bottom layer of the global pyramid of wealth.
The true ending of human ideological evolution is not, as Fukuyama would have us believe, linked to the ending of natural science in a completed "theory of everything." The suspension of natural selection which currently applies to the whole of the western world and much of the rest of humanity is in itself fundamentally unstable, because it is accompanied by the widespread destruction of the ecosystem upon which we depend. We may have come close to stopping the process of natural selection as it applies to humans, but we have vastly amplified it as far as most of the rest of the ecosystem is concerned. Any species which cannot adapt to the new order is threatened with annihilation. At some point in the future, and it looks like it will be sooner rather than later, the damage we have caused to the ecosystem and our reckless dependency on non-renewable natural resources will be our undoing. The true ending of ideological evolution is not a state where natural selection has been temporarily halted at the expense of the rest of the Earth's living systems, but a state where natural selection has been permanently halted by a human culture which has learned to live in sustainable harmony with the rest of that ecosystem. Only then could we be free from the threat of ecological catastrophe, the collapse of our civilisation and the grim return of biological natural selection.
Homo sapiens is an arrogant beast. "Wise man", it called itself. With the benefit of hindsight, "clever man" may have been a more appropriate name - Homo callidus. When faced with challenges like disease or starvation we have always found some ingenious way to turn the forces of nature to our advantage. We have split the atom. We have walked on the moon. We have sequenced the human genome. But we have conspicuously failed to augment our cleverness with the wisdom required to acknowledge and act upon the single greatest threat that we face - the feedback effect from our own unbridled dominance of our environment. Conquering nature requires cleverness, not wisdom. Conquering our own nature would have been the wiser path and this we have found more trying.
Homo sapiens still has a chance of becoming the concluding phase of hominid evolution. If we succeed, it will be because our cultural and ideological evolution has progressed to the point where it becomes possible for the majority of humans to effectively overcome the behavioural "flaws" which were put there by the evolutionary process whereby our species was created. If we fail - if we respond inadequately to the threat - then civilisation will falter and natural selection will return to shape a new hominid, better adapted to survive in an ecosystem ruined by its ancestor, which it shall rename Homo stultus - "foolish man" - the creature which was clever enough to dominate its environment like none before, clever enough to understand that its behaviour was destabilising the system which created and supports it - the creature which saw the catastrophe coming but lacked the wisdom and will required to prevent it. Perhaps that new hominid will call itself Homo humilis - "humble man."
Geoff
I don't see that. I agree that there are some weird people involved, just as there are in many other areas of life. But the people who are at the heart of it in the UK are pretty practical and level headed. I'm on the task and finish group for setting up Permaculture Cymru, and everyone involved in that is pretty sane. Much of our planning policy recognises permaculture as an acceptable method of land management.revdode wrote:My greatest challenge in recent years was putting up with the nonsense you hear in the group of people attracted to permaculture. For me this seemed to be an essential practical approach but really the amount of nonsense that various groups are trying to attach to the subject has made me seriously question whether I want to spend any more time on it. I certainly would hesitate now to say I'm a permaculturist in public for fear of being branded a moon planting dowser.
If you're concerned about the nonsense, get more involved and help to make sure it doesn't take over, so we lose a valuable system that can make a real difference.
Not everyone agrees with Fukuyama (or Steve Jones for that matter):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7132794.stm
Jonny2mad may yet see his wish for humans with cranial ridges come true.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7132794.stm
Jonny2mad may yet see his wish for humans with cranial ridges come true.
Hi John, agreed my comment wasn't fair and doesn't really represent the majority of the people I met during courses and since but it there is a significant and very noisy minority. Also the publication most available to the public sadly drifts into the weird world of woo too often for me. BTW I count myself as weirdly practical. When I get back to the UK I will get involved again.JohnB wrote:I don't see that. I agree that there are some weird people involved, just as there are in many other areas of life. But the people who are at the heart of it in the UK are pretty practical and level headed.
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Regarding permaculture, I agree that there is a lot of waffle around it... I'm very sceptical about this movement.
Regarding evolution, I don't think humans are fundamentally much different than say back in the Stone Age.
Regarding technology, I see no reason to beleive that technological process has ended, with the early emergence of nanotechnology, sysnthetic biology and potentially fusion (which is scientifically feasible, it just needs some investment) are all signs that the coming scarcity in energy in the coming decades should be the big kick to get us to the next level in terms of techological development.
Of course there is always a risk of a hard-crash revertion to a neo-barbarian world of salvage societies.
Regarding evolution, I don't think humans are fundamentally much different than say back in the Stone Age.
Regarding technology, I see no reason to beleive that technological process has ended, with the early emergence of nanotechnology, sysnthetic biology and potentially fusion (which is scientifically feasible, it just needs some investment) are all signs that the coming scarcity in energy in the coming decades should be the big kick to get us to the next level in terms of techological development.
Of course there is always a risk of a hard-crash revertion to a neo-barbarian world of salvage societies.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction