Ireland

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 11 Nov 2010, 16:50

Roger Adair wrote:profit of doom

(Sorry Roger

).

Mean Mr Mustard · Post by **Mean Mr Mustard** » 11 Nov 2010, 18:01

Roger Adair wrote:...all those died in the wool marxists

Can I join in too?

Sounds a nice comfy way to go...

Sorry Roger...

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » 11 Nov 2010, 18:36

Some Marxist quotes relevant to Ireland:
"I worked my way up from nothing to a state of extreme poverty."

"I, not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy today. I can choose which it shall be. Yesterday is dead, tomorrow hasn't arrived yet. I have just one day, today, and I'm going to be happy in it."

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies."

"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."

We were talking about Groucho, weren't we?

Tawney · Post by **Tawney** » 11 Nov 2010, 18:56

Irish 10-year bonds now at 9.26%. I think we can assume that something will have to be done soon'ish; some sort of EU or IMF rescue presumably.

Ireland's crisis has triggered fears of a repeat of Greece's near-bankruptcy, casting a shadow over the summit as world leaders try to hammer out a deal for global growth.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010 ... and-rescue

If I’ve understood correctly, if Ireland is offered a loan it needs to be at not much more than 2% to give the country a realistic chance of reducing the deficit over time. The problem for the EU/IMF will be that if Ireland is offered relatively “easy” terms, Portugal, Spain and perhaps others are likely to want the same arrangement.

Meanwhile at the G20 there's pressure on Cameron to concentrate on growth rather than austerity. So, if economic good sense can get the better of ideological zeal we might see some growth related stimulus along with the the cuts.

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 11 Nov 2010, 19:20

emordnilap wrote:
Roger Adair wrote:profit of doom

(Sorry Roger ).

The Morgan Kellys of this world are profiting greatly from doom.

Words are cheep.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 11 Nov 2010, 19:25

JohnB wrote:Some Marxist quotes relevant to Ireland:
"I worked my way up from nothing to a state of extreme poverty."

"I, not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy today. I can choose which it shall be. Yesterday is dead, tomorrow hasn't arrived yet. I have just one day, today, and I'm going to be happy in it."

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies."

"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."

We were talking about Groucho, weren't we?

and

"Things are getting better; they've gone from worse to bad."

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 11 Nov 2010, 19:29

Tawney wrote:Irish 10-year bonds now at 9.26%. I think we can assume that something will have to be done soon'ish; some sort of EU or IMF rescue presumably.

a deal for global growth.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010 ... and-rescue
Meanwhile at the G20 there's pressure on Cameron to concentrate on growth rather than austerity. So, if economic good sense can get the better of ideological zeal we might see some growth related stimulus along with the the cuts. e]

You might call this the eco growth/debt conundrum.

I guess for example I must try and get a bank loan from AIB or BOI to buy a new (German) car I cannot really afford to replace my 16 year old 200,000 mile banger .......

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 11 Nov 2010, 22:35

Contary to the myth promoted by some here, the coalition policies are focusing on growth, think Crossrail, the expansion of rail, the green bank, the lower corporation taxes to encourage job creation in the productive economy.

Cutting benefits and the non-jobs in the public sector will encourage growth in the medium term and hopefully if the cuts do succeed than the government will be able to lower taxes for businesses and people, encouraging spending and further job creation in the real economy which actually creates wealth!

Regarding Ireland, the reason they are in such a mess is mainly that they are in the euro, if they had their own currency they would be able to find that their vibrant export industries could export more (because of cheaper currency) which would lead to less bad econonic situation.

Regarding Greece, the classic case of a country which carried on spending more than it earns, the only reason that economy hasn't collapsed is because it was bailed out by the Germans!

bigjim · Post by **bigjim** » 11 Nov 2010, 23:01

Lord Beria3 wrote:Cutting benefits and the non-jobs in the public sector will encourage growth in the medium term and hopefully if the cuts do succeed than the government will be able to lower taxes for businesses and people, encouraging spending and further job creation in the real economy which actually creates wealth!

You're sounding like the Daily Mail here- yuck. It's easy to cut benefits for people but don't forget many recipients of benefits are not the stereotypical council estate junkies who have not done a day's honest work in their life. What about all those people on jobseekers allowance, which is worth in the region of £60 a week to most people? You'll also find that the Gov. has already been cutting taxes for businesses- HMRC recently let Vodafone off a tax bill worth £6 billion according to Private Eye and the Guardian.

Lord Beria3 wrote:Regarding Ireland, the reason they are in such a mess is mainly that they are in the euro, if they had their own currency they would be able to find that their vibrant export industries could export more (because of cheaper currency) which would lead to less bad econonic situation.

Germany too has the Euro and they're still going well. The reason Ireland is in a mess is that they borrowed too much money, much more than they could afford. The Euro does seem to be hampering their recovery efforts a bit but I don't think it's the primary reason for their mess.

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 13 Nov 2010, 07:15

If someone does hear that insane men in white coats from th IMF or the ECB have taken over from the current lunatics in the Irish deparment of finance, central bank, financial regulators office, bank board rooms etc can they please PM me.

All the endless speculation about the fecked economy and our local horror story of a by-election in two weeks means I have decided to stop listening to the news or reading newspapers untill the grid goes off because we cannot afford to import gas anymore.

Cabrone · Post by **Cabrone** » 13 Nov 2010, 12:45

Tawney wrote:Irish 10-year bonds now at 9.26%. I think we can assume that something will have to be done soon'ish; some sort of EU or IMF rescue presumably.

Depends on how much of the total debt these 10 year bonds represent and what the average interest rate is for the whole debt.

Does anyone have a breakdown of the sizes\interest rates of all Irish bond issues out there in the market?

If these 10 year bonds were say 5% of the total debt and the rest was in say 50 year bonds at 1.5% then maybe Ireland could soldier through.

However if:
1) The IMF figure of Irish debt equal to approx 10 times GDP is true
and
2) These 10 year bonds represent something like 20-25% or more of the total debt

........then you'd have to conclude that Ireland is in a whole heap of trouble.

PS Roger, no-one in the UK is gloating over this. Ireland is an important trading partner and if it collapses it does us no favours.

contadino · Post by **contadino** » 13 Nov 2010, 14:32

Cabrone wrote:Ireland is an important trading partner and if it collapses it does us no favours.

Could you expand on that? I don't understand why the UK MSM went mad about an imaginary chance of the UK contributing to a Greek bail-out, and their blanket support for becoming involved in an Irish bail-out.

Post by **adam2** » 13 Nov 2010, 15:07

Looks like the bail out is now being disscussed oficialy
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11750676

syberberg · Post by **syberberg** » 13 Nov 2010, 15:45

contadino wrote:
Cabrone wrote:Ireland is an important trading partner and if it collapses it does us no favours.
Could you expand on that? I don't understand why the UK MSM went mad about an imaginary chance of the UK contributing to a Greek bail-out, and their blanket support for becoming involved in an Irish bail-out.

Ireland is closer.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 13 Nov 2010, 15:48

When it's poor, Ireland comes and bothers us. And can you blame it?